[00:00:00] Danny de Hek: Hello, beautiful people. How are you doing? I’m Danny de Hek. Thank you for pressing play and listening to my video. I got to be in the New York Times. I got a whole page on Danny de Hek busting Ponzi scheme that they called me the Crypto Ponzi Scheme. Avenger, what a name. And that means I’ve actually gained some followers while people who subscribe to my YouTube channel.
[00:00:25] Danny de Hek: So thank you so much. If you’re one of those people, and you may not have seen my videos before, I record them like I’m live streaming. And then I upload them later on. I don’t like editing much. I’m also dyslexic. So if you read my show notes and look at the timestamps, cuz you might wanna jump forward to the part you wanna watch, then you might find some spelling mistakes.
[00:00:47] Danny de Hek: And I really love people who comment on my videos. It’s your your choice. You can comment on this video and tell me what you think and if you hit the thumbs up button that tells YouTube you like my videos and it sends it out to the masses. And then I can help name and shame these people that are running Ponzi scheme.
[00:01:05] Danny de Hek: And that’s my main goal. My goal at the moment is to be a full-time YouTuber and it’s not easy becoming a YouTuber. So I really value having you here. Now I’m gonna tell you a little bit of a story about something that happened last Friday that was before I was famous in the New York Times. Had a young fella from an SEO company telephoned.
[00:01:25] Danny de Hek: Now, if you’ve got a small to medium sized business and you have a website, you’re probably experiencing the same thing I’m experiencing. You get in emails every day from people. I delete these emails. The same people email me in two days time asking me if I had a chance to read their emails. So when someone tele phones me based in New Zealand where I’m from and claims that they can do the SEO for my website and don’t really understand my business or have they really researched my business it really annoys me.
[00:01:58] Danny de Hek: So this is the splash screen that we’ll be doing today, website design and development companies. Sorry I said that wrong. Website design and development SEO companies. Are you being exploited? Is SEO a scam? Now I’m pretty aggressive to anyone that claims they can do my SEO, but. I take a lot of my SEO for granted because I have some good practices when I’m doing new content now I am everywhere.
[00:02:30] Danny de Hek: If you go to deek.com, you’ll see that website that actually gets between 17,000 to 50,000 page views on a monthly basis. I had a real big spike last Sunday when I was in the New York Times, but that’s a lot of traffic and a lot of other people I know will be lucky to get 10 to 15 people on their website every day.
[00:02:51] Danny de Hek: So what happened? Young guy rung me up and he told me he was from such and such company, like I should know the name of the company and I, I didn’t hear it, but it sound official, but I didn’t know who they were. Next thing he tells me that, he asked me a question, he said, Have you heard of the government incentive for blah, blah, blah, blah?
[00:03:12] Danny de Hek: Something to do with, It sounded like he was saying he was either from a government department, Or there was a government scheme where the small to medium size business may get some funding. That’s what it sounded like to me. And it was well read. Next thing I said, No, I, I haven’t, And he asked me if I’d like a 15 minute free website appraisal.
[00:03:33] Danny de Hek: And I said, Look mate, I don’t need your SEO. Actually, I think you’re scamming people by ringing them up and selling them SEO packages. He goes, Do you realize that your website is on page eight of the search engines? Tell Danny d heck that his website is on page eight of the search engines. Just a word of advice.
[00:03:53] Danny de Hek: So this is my outdoor website and as you can see, that is actually me in the middle of nowhere with a backpack on and I have an outdoor shop. That’s me again. These are my photos, Not all of them are. And here’s some of my products. So I said, You know, that website that you see in the search result that’s coming up in page eight actually sold $36,500 worth of sales last year in 12 month period.
[00:04:19] Danny de Hek: And I said, You don’t know anything about my business. And if you sold me a SEO package with five words, cause that’s what they normally do, you would actually harm my business more than bring more traffic to my website. So just to give you a look, you’ll have to lodge your screen if you wanna see this properly, but I’ve done $36,000 worth of sales.
[00:04:38] Danny de Hek: I’m just gonna rattle off some figures for those people who have Shopify websites, I know what these means. . First of all, I’m up 20% from the year before, which is really good. My average sale was $80. I had 501 orders. And if you go down to the bottom here, it tells me that sales attribute to marketing.
[00:04:57] Danny de Hek: So I got $15,200 worth of sales from marketing organically. That means I got, oh, I have to work that out. $21,000 worth of sales from organic traffic. Now, there’s a whole lot of clever stuff in there that I’m not gonna tell you about, but I only sell products to New Zealanders. And that’s pretty good.
[00:05:20] Danny de Hek: And to be honest, I do drop shipping for a living and 45% of that is actually profit. So if you want any help doing drop shipping, let me know and reach out to me and I’ll tell you how to do it. So the young fellow was Tom and I really got stuck into Tom. I told him to go get a job and at the end I told him, I yelled down the phone and said, Get off my phone.
[00:05:41] Danny de Hek: I’m so sick of it. And then, then I’d started, I thought I’d research Tom and I would see who he is. Would you believe I found a camping store with his phone number on it. And I’m thinking the guy that rung me telling me that my camping store isn’t ranking and it’s on page eight of the search engines.
[00:06:03] Danny de Hek: And just for example, if you search for NZ Outdoors in the Google, I actually come up number one and I know that people aren’t searching for phrases. That he thinks they are. And if I had five phrases that they normally say as a package and I was coming up on top of the search engines, it wouldn’t mean I would generate any more sales.
[00:06:27] Danny de Hek: So I’m this actually, Tom is a, is a frigging awesome guy and I liked him. I’ve got to know Tom and his method. So first of all, I thought Tom was working for the company that owned this website. This is his hobby website. So he’s taken a lot of initiative and he set himself up a little drop shipping website.
[00:06:47] Danny de Hek: But at the time I couldn’t remember the name of the company he was from. And I’m thinking if this is the type of websites that EO. As producing, then he’s got no show of helping or bettering anything I’m doing. And just while you’re there, if you are looking at a website like this, these images aren’t unique and you should have unique images, but you can right click on any image on the internet and go search image with Google Lens.
[00:07:14] Danny de Hek: That’s if you’re using Chrome and what it will do, or go to Google and say, this image has a footprint, let’s go find to see where it is. And here we are. It is that image. These are all images of Alibaba and these are rooftop vehicles. And he’s basically doing drop shipping as well. And there’s the same photo.
[00:07:34] Danny de Hek: And if you come down here further, you’ll see other photos as well. So this was really interesting to me. And if you look, click on the About Us page. There’s a nice little story in there about him wanting to basically make your holiday better and all these images that you can see. I actually just copied images and I’m, this paragraph might be his, but this whole website isn’t gonna perform very well in the search engines, and that’s probably why he is not selling any of these.
[00:08:03] Danny de Hek: I can look at this website and say, I’ll eat my hat if he is actually sold. One next thing, I did a search for a the phone number again, I found another website and I found a website that does website development and also SEO packages. And now I’m thinking, Oh, so this is the company that he was calling me from, but this is a 22 year old guy who set up two websites of his own because he’s having a go at becoming a website developer.
[00:08:28] Danny de Hek: Now, I take my hat off to you, Tom, because you remind me of me when I was young. Now, this image that you see in the background is actually one and a half megabytes, and it’s a p and g, and that takes a long time to load faster. Your website loads. The higher it will rank in the search engines. Now, just before I get off my high horse, I’m actually finished on explaining the back of the story as I’ve got a pie in the oven and the buzzer’s gonna go off in five minutes, so I’m gonna get onto the next part of the meeting.
[00:08:58] Danny de Hek: So anyway, I went to ring back Tom, not knowing where he is from and who he was, and I wanted to say to him, How can you ring me up, mate? I’ve just yelled down the phone at the guy. How can you ring me up and tell me you’re an SEO when I found these two websites you have done. Anyway, he blocked my number.
[00:09:13] Danny de Hek: He blocked my number because I told him never ever to ring me again. He did the right thing. Anyway, so I, I searched for his phone number, I found him on WhatsApp and I sent him a few more messages and I said, Can you please get your boss to ring me? Meet Kevin. Kevin is the most amazing person I’ve ever.
[00:09:28] Danny de Hek: He rung me up and addressed all the issues I had and I can see why Kevin has 25 people up to 25 people working for his company at certain periods. All depends what job. He doesn’t employ 25 people, but when he gets a job, he’s got a lot of contractors he can bring in to do certain things. This guy really knows how to run a company and he explained that Tom was a little bit shaken after talking to me on the phone and obviously he rang the wrong person.
[00:09:53] Danny de Hek: But between Mark and myself, we really did discuss, you know, is SEO needed and is is a scam and what services. Does he provide and why? Because I was telling him I just can’t stand these companies that ring people up all day long. Cause often what happens is you go to a website development company and say, Look, I want a website designed.
[00:10:14] Danny de Hek: And they’ll say, How much? And you say four. And they’ll say four and a half, $5,000. You get your website and you’re all excited and you sit there waiting for it to come up in the search engines and nothing happens. So then you go back to the search engine company and say, Why doesn’t it rank up in the search engines?
[00:10:28] Danny de Hek: And then they say, Oh, you need to spend money on an EEO package and I’ll probably charge you anything from 500 to $2,000. And then they may even encourage you to spend a monthly fee. Now, if I was ever going to use a company to do my SEO, honestly this company I’m about to introduce you to, I would recommend their services.
[00:10:51] Danny de Hek: And this is Kiwi. Kiwi website design.nz. Now, I’m not being paid for this at all, but I really gave it to one of their staff members who was a lead generator. I, I had a guess that the guy was young. I, I didn’t realize I’ve explained my story, but the young fellow was awesome. He’s having to go developing a website of his own.
[00:11:13] Danny de Hek: He’s gonna learn. The only way you’re gonna learn how to be good at SEO is by having it go yourself and find out what works and what doesn’t. You can go to these SEO companies and you can you know, spend a ton of money with these guys and get nowhere. And honestly, if you think that your website, what you really wanna do is you wanna go to these website development companies who claim that they can have you coming up when you search for a certain term and you wanna gauge the results.
[00:11:40] Danny de Hek: that they, you get after they’ve done some work. So for example, if you went to a company called Evil Genius Stock Code nz, I’ve just done an hour and a half’s worth of tickling up. Cause I noticed that that company had no SEO. And I said to my mate, who owns the business? You’ve got no SEO. So go in there, get a couple of hours work done, tickle up the website.
[00:12:00] Danny de Hek: So it’s got it’s keyword friendly. But you know, when I construct a website, I make sure the images are named. I make sure the content is on each pages. And these website development companies that charge you for a five page website and eight page website, you, they must think I’m crazy. I used to develop websites that were over a hundred pages.
[00:12:22] Danny de Hek: Now I used to have 45 different rental car companies that used to use my services and I was doing 98% of all their internet advertising and they all wanted to come up in the top. of the search engines. A lot of strategies are needed to actually have that happen. So I used to start writing itineraries about, so when people were hiring rental cars and they wanted to go from say like Christchurch to Auckland, they would be searching for the activities.
[00:12:48] Danny de Hek: They would stumble across the website, and then they would have advertising wrapped around it. A bit like driving down the road and seeing a billboard advertising a rental car for horror or a jet ski or a boat for her. When you’re on holiday, you the same sort of thing really. But I’m not gonna get into that today because this is actually a podcast.
[00:13:05] Danny de Hek: And this podcast was when I met Mark and I must say I have the utmost respect for Kiwi website design. They they looked after. They just did everything right and I had to eat humble pie and I may be a bit gentler on the next person that rings me up and offer me a ceo, CEO package. So what I’m gonna do, I’m gonna press play.
[00:13:26] Danny de Hek: The buzzer is about to go off. I’m gonna grab my pie. I’m gonna go cook myself dinner, and I’m gonna let you listen to this podcast and when I come back, I hopefully won’t interrupt you much. Also, I’m gonna have a jewel screen, so when they’re talking about different things, I will bring up another thing.
[00:13:41] Danny de Hek: So I, if you hit the full screen mode, you’ll be able to watch and see all the graphics on the screen. So here we go. Meet Mark. Lovely guy. So the question here is, are you being exploited by these SEO companies? Do they actually do a good job for you? And is SEO just another scam, or is it getting low hanging fruit?
[00:14:01] Danny de Hek: The first five minutes, I apologize, I’m probably a bit tired and grumpy, but you’ll see the whole conversation really pans out. So here we go.
[00:14:09] Mark Magcaling: I’m so impressed, Danny, by the way. Honestly, like, I don’t know. I know it’s been weird that how we met, but like after I looked at your profile and how you’ve set up everything, it’s very impressive.
[00:14:19] Danny de Hek: Oh, well we try, You learn every day . So it is a learning curve. I mean, yeah, I just I lost my business to Covid, so I used to have a business networking company, tried to move everyone onto Zoom and it was just really hard. Yeah. And so then I thought I’d start doing online workshops and cause I, with my business network and I used to do tutorials.
[00:14:44] Danny de Hek: Mm. And they were quite cool. And so I thought I’ll make them into workshops, but no one wants to do workshops. Everyone’s too busy. . Yeah, that’s right. So I got a whole lot of gear and here I am and now a YouTube and a podcaster and all sorts of things, which I never thought I’d do. So just gotta make, try to make money out of.
[00:15:01] Mark Magcaling: But like from what I know about the industry, right? Cause I follow it quite closely. Like the thumbnails, the way you’ve set up the podcast and the YouTube videos, the workshops, the website, it’s all aligned with everything that everyone preaches about. So, and it’s very, that I’ve seen anyone in New Zealand do it, you know, So you, you’re very early
[00:15:18] Danny de Hek: Oh, well, we’ll give it a go. I’ve got I was in the New York Times on Saturday. I got a, in the printed edition. I dunno how I, I did that, but it was so awesome because that’s sort of like starting to get a bit of recognition for the work for your brand. Hey, for the brand, for Danny. The brand. Your brand.
[00:15:34] Danny de Hek: Yeah. Well the nickname me, the Crypto Ponzi scheme. Now I’m waffling on a wee bit here, so excuse me for that. But if you want to go into the description of the video and they’ll put timestamps so you don’t have to listen to me waffle on however, The start of this is showing, I’ve never met Mark before.
[00:15:54] Danny de Hek: I talked to him on the phone for about five, 10 minutes originally on the Friday. And they said, Let’s schedule the time, Let’s do a podcast. And this is the result of it. So I’ll let him carry on. And when we just get to know each other, and I don’t like editing this sort of stuff out in case you think it’s all stage, I want it to be authentic and genuine.
[00:16:09] Danny de Hek: Mm-hmm. Avenger. Oh wow. Yeah. So it’s a real treat.
[00:16:15] Danny de Hek: Oh, a little bit. More about Ponzi schemes that we do which I’ll just make sure I’m recording this correctly anyway, cuz it’s nice to have a bit of ne amble. No worries. But there’s a Ponzi scheme out there called Hyperverse, and from my calculations, it’s about a 4 billion scam.
[00:16:32] Danny de Hek: Wow. I sort of got in about 10 months ago and somebody was trying to encourage me to come along to a meeting. And then they and I said, What’s the meeting about? And they said, Oh, it’s an opportunity for you to be able to buy a house and everything that you want. And I went, Okay. So finished up somebody who knew me from my business networking, who’s always promoting every multi-level marketing scheme out.
[00:16:53] Danny de Hek: And then I just a quick, a quick overview and realize it’s a Ponzi scheme. Wow. Yeah. And then I
[00:17:00] Mark Magcaling: give you 2 cents on it. Did they say that again? Did they interview on your thoughts on it?
[00:17:05] Danny de Hek: Yeah, they did. They basically, I, it’s a long story, but basically I used to be a Jehovah’s Witness and I got kicked outta the organization.
[00:17:11] Danny de Hek: And there seems to be a parallel of people preaching what they believe is true. And then when you don’t go by the rules, they kick you out. And it’s very same with these Ponzi schemes. As soon as you start questioning that, it’s a Ponzi scheme, they just boot you out. Yeah. They’re protecting the system.
[00:17:28] Danny de Hek: They’re protecting their narrative. Yeah, that’s the, the clever word for it. You look like you’ve got a pretty good slick setup where you are though. You’ve got a good screen behind you and good
[00:17:36] Mark Magcaling: lighting. I, I’m in a boardroom at the moment, to be honest, so, Oh, that helps. Behind closed doors is a boardroom here, so I’ve been in meetings all morning, which has been great, which is horrible for productivity, back to back meetings.
[00:17:48] Mark Magcaling: But yep. Needs to be done. And I’ve really enjoyed our conversation because like I said to you in our short phone calls, there’s some, some merits to what you’ve said about cold callers. I totally agree. And I’ve been in industry since 2009 and I’ve cold called myself, you know, like many times before.
[00:18:04] Danny de Hek: Yeah. You probably won’t like my take on it and I’ll just, I’ll, I’ll tell you my take on it and I think it’s going to have both perspectives, but I’ve been doing website development for 25 years, you see, And I’ve also, because I’ve owned a business networking company, I’ve had a lot of businesses come and go.
[00:18:20] Danny de Hek: And the thing that I don’t like about EO companies is, I don’t think it’s actually, I think it’s a wee bit misleading. And I think, you know, to be honest, it’s like going after the low hanging fruit. And I also feel like that everyone wants their website to be in the top 10 of the search engines. And it’s so complex SEO.
[00:18:39] Danny de Hek: And like I said to you on the phone the other day, we had obviously a phone call from you, young fellow and I, I’ve done a whole video all about it already. Nice. I, I listened to it back and I thought to myself, I haven’t really given the young fella, his Jew for being entrepreneurial, and I’m, I’m all about that.
[00:19:02] Danny de Hek: So for people that maybe watching this and you’re okay if I published this? Yep. So I got a phone call. He did say yes, by the way. He just couldn’t hear him. on Friday from a young fella who kind of rattled off where he was from. So red flags start waving to me. It’s another SEO comp. Well, I didn’t know who it was.
[00:19:22] Danny de Hek: Yeah, that’s right. And he talked to me like I should know who the company was and I didn’t. Mm-hmm. . And then the very next thing, and you can probably help me with the paragraph he used, but he sort of alleged that there was a government initiative and asked me if I was aware of the government initiative or a government scheme that that was around the small to medium size businesses.
[00:19:41] Danny de Hek: Mm-hmm. . So I’m not sure exactly the, Are you familiar with that paragraph?
[00:19:45] Mark Magcaling: Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s, it carries on from the funding that was released in RT owa Activate Toko. Obviously we were able to help a lot of businesses, but there’s obviously a lot of education pieces from the government right now from the Ministry of Business.
[00:19:57] Mark Magcaling: Innovation. I think it’s around digital boost. It’s what the wording would. And the idea is that are you aware that the government’s creating an initiative to help business owners to achieve more online? And companies like us are front footing that in order to educate and hopefully in a way, you know, provides literacy your problems.
[00:20:15] Danny de Hek: that’s fair. That, that sounds familiar. So my problem with that is when I heard him say it and it was kind of scripted and read off the card, and it was pretty wordy, it was made me feel like, Oh, this might be an opportunity for me to get something for my business funded by the government, or the person that’s talking on the phone has some association with the government department.
[00:20:36] Danny de Hek: Sure. Yeah. And I thought, well, that kind of, And then the part that didn’t get me was the part where he said that we’re offering a free 15 minute website appraisal and the amount of scams and information that I’m fighting through every. I’m listening to that and I’m thinking, ah, it’s another SEO company trying to fool me into using, you know, So I’ll give you a scenario.
[00:20:58] Danny de Hek: It used to be a Jehovah’s Witness, right? I used to knock on someone’s door and they’d say, I’m not interested. So we wouldn’t just tune away and walk out the door. We would say, Are you not interested in Jehovah’s Witnesses or are you’re not interested in religion? 98% of people would say religion. And then I’d say, Well, we can understand that because religion is responsible for so much of the mayhem in the world today.
[00:21:20] Danny de Hek: And before you know it, you’ve overcome that obstacle and you’ve kept talking and you’ve kept the, the customer or the person in front of you. So the first tactic, I didn’t know, I didn’t, weren’t familiar with the company, obviously, he had sort of given me some sort of government word and got my attention, kept me on the phone.
[00:21:38] Danny de Hek: And then he said that, I said, Well, I don’t need any SEO help. But he said, Are you aware that your website is ranking number eight? For a certain phrase that he’s decided that my website would be good coming up in the results for. Mm. And that got my backup because the, what I know that SEO companies do, and I’ve looked at what you are doing, and I’ve also looked for companies that this young fellow was working for, is they pick out five keywords that the customer wants to come up in or they’ve researched and they’ve found would be good for the customer.
[00:22:14] Danny de Hek: So my, my website’s called NZ Outdoors, and if you search for NZ Outdoors, it comes up number one. But having a website that when you search for a phrase coming up, number one, doesn’t really make any difference in my opinion. And my website comes up, I get so I said to you, young fellow, I said, Look, that website that comes up in number eight in the search engines actually sold $38,000 worth of products last year and made me a profit of around about $16,000.
[00:22:40] Danny de Hek: How is that possible if it’s not coming up in the search engines? Oh yeah. And he said, Oh, and then we sort of, I gave him a real hard time cause I get so many emails and all that. Then after the phone call, I told him to get off the phone. I was a bit of a grumpy bugger. And as you said, when you rung me, What did you say?
[00:22:56] Danny de Hek: You said I he was miffed why I gave him such a bar. Barreling. . Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. Yep. So then I thought, well, I’m gonna research this guy. So then I researched the phone number he was calling me on and I found a camping a roof rooftop tent site selling products that are off Ali Express.
[00:23:15] Danny de Hek: Wally Baba. And that was and I’m thinking, here’s a guy bringing up a camping store, Alleg, that he knows how to do SEO. He’s got a his own camping style store and it’s all done terribly wrong. And I think, how can you ring up and preach me a message about doing SEO? Then I found a An internet company looking like that was the company he was representing.
[00:23:38] Danny de Hek: Yeah. Long story short the guy’s quite enterprising. I guess he was 20, you said he was 22. He’s having a go and that’s exactly what I used to be doing. Yeah. So my problem is, and I’ve done articles about it before, I just don’t think going to some company grabbing 800, $700 or whatever it is, telling them that they’re gonna come up in the search results for certain phrases that you think rank is actually ethical.
[00:24:05] Danny de Hek: Because I sort of think it doesn’t work. There’s so many things involved. You know, for example, the SEO company that his website that he had had an image on the background that was one and a half me, a p, a p and G. So slow loading website isn’t something that somebody ringing up claiming to be an SEO guy.
[00:24:25] Danny de Hek: Obviously then I’ve, he blocked my number cause I was abusing the shit out of him and then I found him on WhatsApp and then I carried on abusing the shit out of him saying he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Get off the internet, get a real job. He tells me he is got a real job and then so if you got a real job, get your boss ring me, boom, you come in.
[00:24:40] Mark Magcaling: Yeah. And unfortunately, in my opinion, Dan, Danny, I think it was, I think it’s a favorable circumstance because you brought up some good points and I think just to clarify, you have no issues with, you have no issues with cold calling per se. It’s more about the lack of training when someone cold calls.
[00:24:56] Danny de Hek: I don’t think, I think it was very good and I hate sales. I don’t think, When I think back, cuz the video I did, I, I should show it to you, I think I actually deleted it now, but I, I gave him quite a hard time and I thought, what am I doing this for? Am I doing it because I’m so sick and tired of, I get, I said to you on the phone the other day, I get an email and then I delete it.
[00:25:16] Danny de Hek: Two days later I get another email from that same company saying, Have you had time to read my email? Can you please reply? I’m offering you a. And I’m so tired of it
[00:25:24] Mark Magcaling: all the worst. Honestly, I think it’s, it’s, I mean at least have the confidence to call that client and have a conversation with them, call emails.
[00:25:32] Mark Magcaling: But I I I, I agree in principle in what you’re saying, right. I think, I mean the, the part that I was trying to understand is if, if cold calling in your opinion, I dead right? Because there’s some evidence behind that. If it isn’t right, then what should we could better the cold calling training. Cuz definitely that needs to happen.
[00:25:46] Mark Magcaling: Cause I think what happened in your example is that the way that Tom really shared, or the way that he pitched you didn’t sit well with you. Right. And it probably won’t sit well with a lot of different business owners. If you own your own business, you have some capability or understanding of SEO and someone’s telling you, Hey, your is crap.
[00:26:01] Mark Magcaling: Of course you’re gonna get offended. It’s like, what do you know about my personal company? In regards to the actual hook, I think is what you’re referring to is like how we gain attention with any pitch. That probably needs to be worked on in, in his defense. And
[00:26:13] Danny de Hek: bear with me on this. I, I don’t, I think you know, and I, I sort of formed a bit of a bond with Tom , and I think I shouldn’t have actually been so hard on him because he’s been,
[00:26:23] Mark Magcaling: I think it’s, it’s a reflection of the trauma that businesses have faced in this marketing era online over the last 10 to 15 years when it hit maturity. Because we’ve had agencies not only in Rt o in New Zealand, but agencies overseas, cold call into our country. So unfortunately, we all get grouped into this one marketing industry, and we’re all part of this industry that that basically don’t wanna do anything great with businesses and we just want their money.
[00:26:47] Mark Magcaling: Yeah. And unfortunately, there’s agencies out there that are revenue driven, right? They’re not results driven, they’re not value driven, they’re not customer focused, and that exists everywhere. That, that,
[00:26:56] Danny de Hek: that’s very good point. And I think what I would like to see is what difference Now some people have no idea of SEO and they’ve got, like, I’ve got a friend that’s got I’ll tell you who it is.
[00:27:05] Danny de Hek: It’s genius co-working dot co nz. His business is maxed out. He’s. A full office and he doesn’t need any ex. He’s full. And I’ve been, I used to work in the office for five years you know, probably five years. And now he’s been going for five years in his new premises. And he said to me, Oh, you know I said, You’ve got no SEO on your website.
[00:27:24] Danny de Hek: So I went through and, and he’s got seven or eight page website. I spent an hour and a half and I charge 120 bucks an hour. So I got 250 bucks or whatever it was. And I just went through his website and had it sort of structured in a way. And I know that even though I search now, the tombs that I’ve done isn’t coming up yet.
[00:27:42] Danny de Hek: It’s gonna take time to merit the search unions. But if I wanted to do a proper job, I would’ve reconstructed the whole website. I would’ve made sure there’s text on every page. I made sure all the images are named correctly. It is tied off the match. And it’s a whole formula. And I think, you know, like I said to you, there was another company out there and I won’t name them because , but they develop a website for four or $5,000 and then they, the customer comes back and goes, Oh, it’s not in the search engines.
[00:28:08] Danny de Hek: Oh, well you need to pay another $1,800 for us to optimize it and keyword it out. And I’m go, What? And I get so sick of that. And that really gets my backup because when I construct a website for a client, normally I only charge 10 hours of my time, which is 1200 bucks. And I’ll set them up a website, then I teach them how to post blogs, where to put the words.
[00:28:29] Danny de Hek: And we do that. Like on Zoom. You’re an educator. Yeah. And I think rather than give a guy a fish, I’m gonna give him a fishing rod. And, you know, and that’s my mentality. And I, I get it. Must be tempting when you’ve got 20 staff. Like how many staff have you got in your
[00:28:44] Mark Magcaling: Oh it ranges because we have a lot of contractors depending on projects.
[00:28:47] Mark Magcaling: But I would say full time would be 25. And then depending on factors and how large the number of projects we have. Cause we could have a hundred sites in development at one time. Right. So that means that we wouldn’t hire. 30 developers. Cause those projects will come to an end. If those contractors do well, we offer them full-time work.
[00:29:03] Mark Magcaling: But with contractors at any given time, probably another 10 to 15 contractors
[00:29:06] Danny de Hek: on top. Wow, that’s amazing. I can’t even comprehend what that, And this is why, you know, keeping a monster like that going, you have to have cash flow coming in.
[00:29:15] Mark Magcaling: Yeah, we do. Yeah. And we’ve been around for 12 years. Right. Don’t forget.
[00:29:17] Mark Magcaling: So we’ve met with, so my, the company I work for, the general manager for is KW d. We predominantly build websites. We we’re a full stack marketing agency that now jumped into software. And the reason why I’m hearing out what Danny’s saying is because I really believe that there is a lack of training in sales.
[00:29:33] Mark Magcaling: And that’s a, that’s a big issue. If you’re making an outbound call call to businesses in New Zealand, you should be highly trained and highly empathetic with those businesses. And I guess where Danny’s experiences at
[00:29:43] Danny de Hek: this point, I am thoroughly impressed with this guy. And I, you know, like I just love the way he handled me.
[00:29:51] Danny de Hek: And he also handled my problems and he took the time out to address the issues that I had. And it actually has changed my thinking of SEO companies. And the next phone call I get from a I might be a little bit
[00:30:04] Mark Magcaling: different come from, is that there’s so many other businesses that try to hook business owners in a way that is misleading and that is the wrong way to do it.
[00:30:12] Mark Magcaling: I totally agree. Because if you start on a misleading note, then what assurance do you have? You’re not gonna do that carrying on in your process. For us, we have a much rigorous, much more rigorous process, Danny, right? So we have the initial appointment call, we have a discovery session that we do on Zoom.
[00:30:26] Mark Magcaling: We have really discovery sessions where we figure out if we can help the client or not, right? So we actually do a full scope in their website and we put a report page, spin insights,
[00:30:35] Danny de Hek: we do analysis. I’ve seen these reports. I mean, you know, they come back and it’s a 24 page worth of something telling you, and I just get, so I just blur over, you know?
[00:30:45] Danny de Hek: Yeah. And I, I think . Yeah. I just don’t think, I, just thinking, I don’t like seeing the packages where you, you, it’s basically, Oh look, I had a look at one of your websites and it was the, the roof racks. And I searched for the roof racks in the phrases that you actually might, not even you guys, but there’s a roof rack company and you search for bike carrier or roof rack and you come up in the top 10.
[00:31:11] Danny de Hek: And I think if somebody bought that, they’ll probably think, Well, that’s the best I can do in SEO. You know? I mean, I just think it’s so expensive to do proper SEO. Yeah, I
[00:31:21] Mark Magcaling: think, I think the key here is, right, which is something we need to discuss is why SEO is the point of discussion, right? Cause I think it’s a really important facet because I believe it’s not by happenstance that EO is becoming more and more important than it’s ever been before.
[00:31:33] Mark Magcaling: And I’ll explain why. In my opinion, Google AdWords in 2011 was much more affordable. Right. You’re talking about. 20 cents, 50 cents to $1 click costs. Google Ad became a premium product, which means that the only, the only two ways or three ways to get on the first page of Google, which is what we know at the end search, right?
[00:31:51] Mark Magcaling: 95% of people when looking for a product or a service or professional, they go onto Google and follow the looking form page one. That’s why it’s been a massive focus for strategies online for businesses, small to medium, even enterprise. But when Google became a premium product, what was the other way to get on page one, right?
[00:32:07] Mark Magcaling: Like it’s, it’s only gonna be, Or Maps. Or Maps, but maps is local, right? And there’s only three spots possibly that shows. So if you’re a nationwide company, you can’t rely on maps alone to get you there. So I believe EOS become more and more popular because AdWords is becoming less and less. There’s only, there’s only two avenues apart from maps to get on page one.
[00:32:25] Mark Magcaling: But I think the other part that you are referring to, Danny, is that you can’t put your whole budget on EO and AdWords alone because multichannel marketing is where we are right now. You have to have a multichannel strategy in order for your business to reach the right audience, in the right way, to build right trust and write attention.
[00:32:41] Mark Magcaling: And it’s something that we’ve taken on board, right? A lot of our strategies now are maturing to social media because it’s, it’s an amazing
[00:32:47] Danny de Hek: brand awareness. Oh, I don’t know, mate. This is where like, if you look, I’m just putting my my partners have sent me a message. I’m recording so everything’s on mute now.
[00:32:56] Danny de Hek: I hope this is recording properly because I’ve had problems. I, I have another program for recording podcast normally, and it gives me speaker view and it was painful. But anyway, hopefully we’re getting this. Oh, she still got through even though I’ve got it on mute. Oh. Anyway and just in case you’re wondering, No, it didn’t record properly, hence why I’m doing a bit of a talk over on it because it’s better when you’ve got both people.
[00:33:16] Danny de Hek: In the picture in what we call GU View, but I figure out how to fix that now. Cause I don’t usually use Zoom, but it’s just easier. So that’s why it’s got my big face in it when I’m talking. And his face in it when he’s talking rather than us do it a side by side view. Mm. I’ll give you a scenario how I don’t feel.
[00:33:33] Danny de Hek: Let’s go back to the original one. And as they say, we looked at my NZ outdoor camping store. Your mate told me I was on page eight when he searched for a certain phrase. I argue the fact that if I were relying on that phrase to come up in the search engines, he wouldn’t help me. In fact, you’d probably hinder my sales.
[00:33:50] Danny de Hek: And he goes, he disagrees. He said, You know, cuz you want to come up for Camping store. And I go, No, because what he doesn’t know is NZ Outdoors used to be called camping gear.co nz. The first year it only sold seven or $9,000 worth of products. And I rebranded it to NZ Outdoors because it was more general.
[00:34:08] Danny de Hek: And then when I create the category structure for all my products, You know, they’re all, you know, like sleeping bags and mats and all associated like mine. And I’m pretty good at doing the structure cause I believe structure’s everything. All right. So at the moment to sell $38,000 worth of products in 12 months, I pay $5 a day to Google and the rest of my traffic is organic.
[00:34:29] Danny de Hek: Now 50% of my traffic’s organic, the other stuff is paid. 65% of my sales actually comes from the $5 I spend with Google a day. You a
[00:34:39] Mark Magcaling: positioning, you reckon? Or due to the keywords you targeted?
[00:34:41] Danny de Hek: No. Well, when I look at the analytics, people are landing. Like I often say, you don’t want your website to have a front door.
[00:34:49] Danny de Hek: Like people always say to me, Oh, people navigate, they go here, here, here. And I go, No they don’t. Every single page of your website actually, people land on that Pacific. So it doesn’t matter if I’ve got the worst SEO on the homepage, I’m not gonna spend, you know, seven or 800 bucks for $1,500 trying to get five words in the top 10 of the search engines.
[00:35:10] Danny de Hek: All I’m worried about is adding a product into my shop and it coming up in, in Google and organically within 24 hours. Yeah, what,
[00:35:18] Mark Magcaling: what I was gonna say was two things can be right at the same time, right? Two things can be right at the same time. One, you’re not on page one of Google for a particular keyword, and two, that keywords not a keyword you wanna be on Google for, and it weren’t driving more revenue.
[00:35:30] Mark Magcaling: So Tom wasn’t wrong, I guess in a say, in saying that you weren’t on page one for that, that’s not pick on
[00:35:35] Mark Magcaling: No, no, no. But however he was possibly wrong in a sense that he better understanding your business well enough that that wasn’t something you’re
[00:35:40] Danny de Hek: targeting. That’s brilliant. What you just said is brilliant.
[00:35:43] Danny de Hek: He assumed, Just wanna stop there. I dunno if you’ve been watching me on the other screen here, but I searched for tents and hammock and you can see that that category there actually come up in the results now. It didn’t come up in the top 10. . However, I have maybe 80 categories that will come up in the same way.
[00:36:03] Danny de Hek: And this gives me a big footprint on the internet and it does help my website. So my category structure is really important. And so should yours be. If you’re trying to get good SEO, it is actually about structure of a website more than just keywords. So while I’m on my high horse, literally, if I wanted to make a quick buck, I could go out there, pick five phrases I could knock on your door.
[00:36:32] Danny de Hek: I could be a, a nice person and tell you that if you want to come up for these five phrases, that sound pretty good to you. They even have good Google credibility. What am I trying to say? So let’s say I think I do research and I find out camping gear is a phrase that has 10,000 people. A month searching for it.
[00:36:55] Danny de Hek: I’m gonna optimize your website. So when people search camping gear that your website is in the top 10, I’m gonna pick five top phrases. I’m gonna optimize your whole website so that it comes up on those top five phrases. I believe that you should use every letter of the alphabet. So all the different types of products that I have in my shop are what I want coming up in the results.
[00:37:22] Danny de Hek: So just, just like I showed over here, Oh, I can’t do it in a hurry. Oh, yes I can. So let’s just say I want well, let’s just use this product here, for example. Now this is a back stretcher thingy. Now the reason why I put this on here, so. At the top here, you’ve got the paid advertising that a lot of people use.
[00:37:44] Danny de Hek: Ah, I’ve got horrible advertising on here on it. One minute, please call her. And you can see that I may not even come up on the paid advertising at the top. If I click on one of those and I finish up going to another website, it will follow me around . If I come through here and look at the general results, you can see that I actually come up in the free organic results.
[00:38:08] Danny de Hek: Now, if I have 1700 products in my website, excuse me, I drunk beer, 1700 products in my website, then I have 1700 keywords and phrases that potentially people could find me on. So every single product I add into my website, I want to have it structured in a way so that product has a good go coming up in the results.
[00:38:32] Danny de Hek: So when somebody comes to me and go, Look, I’m just gonna sell you five phrases for $700, and you don’t know anything about searching your optimization and, and you’re thinking, Oh, should I invest in the ceo? I’m sitting here thinking, Oh, I don’t really think so. Anyway, I’m not gonna interrupt. But once again, if you don’t have I will interrupt.
[00:38:52] Danny de Hek: If you don’t have any knowledge about SEO and your website isn’t, you don’t know how well it’s doing, then you really wanna put Google Analytics on the back end of your website. And if your website is getting, I don’t know what your website’s about, so let’s say I’m about building personal brands now, beginning of this video, I said that to heck.com gets between 1700, and I think the most I’ve had is 52,000 page views per month.
[00:39:20] Danny de Hek: Now, I can guarantee that most general websites would be lucky to get 30 visitors a day, and I would even go back to 10. Or maybe five visitors a day. Now, if you are put Google Analytics on your website and you think, I’m not getting the traffic, what’s the use of having a website? You might as well market your business on a Facebook page, but you should optimize your social media.
[00:39:45] Danny de Hek: And it’s like social media’s, like the grandstand. Your website is what you can control. You can control what goes on the website like you would at a game. So you’re the. And all the social media is the grandstands. So having a website’s really important, but you won’t even think going back to your website.
[00:40:03] Danny de Hek: And that’s why I get so much traffic and I’ve been doing it for years and I’ve been building it up slowly. So you won’t get the, But what I’m, what I’m trying to say, and I won’t ramble on too much more, is you need to gauge how well your website’s doing. Then start experimenting. Go off to Mark and ask him to do a basic website SEO groom, and get your website up to speed.
[00:40:25] Danny de Hek: I mean, not, I’m not saying spend two, three, $4,000 with him. I, it might even be, you know, a thousand dollars and just say, can you just go through and comb the here of my website? Can you get rid of some of the bad things that my website developer that I got really cheap from some country? And then you will probably find that your website will over the next three or four months gain traction.
[00:40:46] Danny de Hek: And you could be getting 50 to 60 visitors to your website each day instead of five or 10. And that, that’s what I do for a lot of people. But let me, let’s carry on before I get Waffly. Yeah. Correct. Yep. And, and that’s what your 15 minute appraisal, which isn’t long enough for me to, I mean, I, I talk to people, I look at their websites.
[00:41:05] Danny de Hek: I do the same thing and I say, Look, just go write a blog , and, and, and, and I’ll show you how to title it nicely. Put three pictures in, make sure they’re cool, the same as the title, and you’ll come up in the search engines. But just because it ranks doesn’t mean you’re gonna sell something. No,
[00:41:30] Mark Magcaling: we are positioned to help those businesses that don’t have the time, expertise, or knowledge for their marketing.
[00:41:36] Mark Magcaling: Right? Yeah. Cause not every business does. Cause most business owners lack time. That’s really it. Money and times where they lack.
[00:41:41] Danny de Hek: And, and what he just said, couldn’t agree with him more. And I’m really impressed with Mark. I’ll say that. It was awesome. We’re gonna catch up for a coffee when I’m in Auckland over Christmas, hopefully time to
[00:41:51] Mark Magcaling: put into their family and their business and money to put into their family in business.
[00:41:54] Danny de Hek: and I get that, but I bus Ponzi schemes. And the problem is I bust Ponzi schemes because I see people who aren’t educated in the crypto investing in crypto. And I think, you know, like the, the sales, the lead generation phone call at the start irritates me because I know the person that’s not the average beer will see feasibility.
[00:42:15] Danny de Hek: And, and it obviously works. And I would like to say, look, if, if you did five keyword strategy on my website, I’d like to see an increase in sales somewhere. Mm. You know, and I’d like to be able to gauge that somehow. But then, okay, now you like, So for example, I’ve got a mate that does one and a half million worth of sales.
[00:42:33] Danny de Hek: A year on his website, he spends two and a half thousand dollars a month on his SEO. He gets contacted every couple of days. When somebody say they can do it better than the other guy, it won’t stop. No , he’ll continue to. So he says to people, Well, I do one and a half million worth of sales a year. So if I lose, if I get less, if you play around for my EEO and you take over my advertising campaigns and I do less, will you pick up the shortfall?
[00:42:58] Danny de Hek: Cause you all say you’re gonna increase my sales by, or whatever, and they, Oh, no, no. Don’t take that responsibility on board. But I mean, that’s a big. It is. Yeah. This is a
[00:43:06] Mark Magcaling: good point you’re bringing up, right? Because let’s, let’s be honest, the calls are not gonna stop either from our agency or any other agency.
[00:43:12] Mark Magcaling: There’s multiple agencies that has an outbound team. Fortunately for us, 90% of our total projects come from an inbound channel, from our marketing, from our own SEO, from our media, from our email marketing. Basically we have a blueprint that we’ve been able to grow our business, and we put that blueprint to our clients, right?
[00:43:28] Mark Magcaling: Whichever we see fit. I guess the question we gotta ask though, is for those businesses that are gonna continue to get cold, cold, right? What, how can we actually help them? Because I think it’s a really good question, right? And. Like your mate who turns over 1.5 million a year every single month or every single week, you’ll get cold cord and cold cord and cold cord.
[00:43:43] Mark Magcaling: Yeah. And the s in my opinion, businesses should not be looking at other agencies if they have one or they’re doing it themselves that believe they can do it better, because that’s, that’s not the factor for marketing in my opinion. It’s not that the, the most important factor, the most important factor is finding out which agency or contractor or advisor understands your business and their messaging and they actually get what you do.
[00:44:06] Mark Magcaling: Cause if you don’t get that part and they go, Hey, I’m an expert in SEO, you could be an expert in SEO, but if you have no idea what I do, you don’t understand my messaging, my services, and my values, my goals. You can’t do it properly, right? In the same, any form of marketing, because that’s the truth.
[00:44:19] Mark Magcaling: They’re gonna continue to get cold, cold. And they’re gonna, if they continue to go, This guy sounds like he can do better. Well, just because he can do better, it doesn’t mean just because he is a better EEO guy, it doesn’t mean he understands your company better.
[00:44:31] Danny de Hek: Yeah, I’ll give you, I’ll give you a fantastic example.
[00:44:34] Danny de Hek: I, I owned a business networking company for eight years. It was called Elite Six Business Networking. And I used to get SEO companies coming along saying that they would they would help market it. And I go, Okay. And then they would say, Well, the, the best phrase for me to come up in the searching is business networking.
[00:44:50] Danny de Hek: Sure. So 200 people a month search for the word business networking. I’m in Christchurch and I do face to face business networking. So I’m not worried about Auckland or Wellington. So that means I’m guessing 30 or 40 people a month searching for that term. So I could get, I could be striking my ego. So then I say to people, What, what services?
[00:45:12] Danny de Hek: Are you providing as a business networking company? And I’m going, Well, I provide a place where people can get support. They can it’s business groups. They can tell their experience, knowledge and skills to other people. They can, you know, so there’s a lot of issues you have when you work and you’re self-employed.
[00:45:25] Danny de Hek: So let’s do a marketing campaign about how to, how to, you know, do systems and administration or, you know, come up with different ways of helping people overcome obstacles that people have in business. And then I started writing articles about all the business networking companies in New Zealand and their point of difference.
[00:45:45] Danny de Hek: So then there was a company out there called BNI Search would be and Eye right underneath it would be the article I wrote about how good BNI is. Yeah. Nice. . So eventually what I’m sort of getting at is, I think it would be nice to say you need a strategy around it. The days of saying here’s five keywords to make your website come up in the result.
[00:46:05] Danny de Hek: Yeah. Okay. But that’s just part of the pie. Yeah, I agree. And strategies that you could employ, like writing blogs. I’m telling people I’ve got a thousand blogs on my website. That doesn’t make any difference, but I find trending content and I’ve just been busting this hyperverse thing. I put a blog, my website gets around about, at the moment, about 17,000 page views a month.
[00:46:27] Danny de Hek: Wow. When Hyperverse was the Ponzi scheme that I was busting and I was publishing my blogs within my website. I got 50,000 page views a month. Yeah. So, and all the other blogs, What was that? It
[00:46:41] Mark Magcaling: was trending and on topic, right? Hyperverse.
[00:46:44] Danny de Hek: Yeah. So, yeah, and, and getting that in sync is quite hard for people to do.
[00:46:47] Danny de Hek: So most people, if you go to a window cleaning, you do a website about window cleaning. He, he just wants to tell everyone how much the services cost and how to
[00:46:56] Mark Magcaling: book him. Yeah. That’s not. You gotta add value. You’ve gotta add
[00:47:01] Danny de Hek: value. Yeah. A bike shop did a video on how to change a tire in five minutes and put that on the YouTube channel.
[00:47:07] Danny de Hek: That’s their biggest looked video. Yeah. You know, but, you know, I’m just going for a wee bit more. You know, you talk, but you know, like, it’s all very well doing ticks and Instagrams and YouTubes and, you know, Tumblrs and, and blogging and you know, SEO and all that sort of stuff. But at the end of the day, what I find when I talk to people, they just get overwhelmed and do nothing much information.
[00:47:28] Danny de Hek: Yeah. And if you hire a company like yourself to do that stuff, I mean, it, it’s a full-time job. So maybe it’s educating and running workshops, teaching people how to do it themselves could be an angle.
[00:47:39] Mark Magcaling: It can be. It definitely can be. Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. I I do believe that. I mean, part of what we tend to do in our business model is that we tend to educate.
[00:47:48] Mark Magcaling: So that the client has full transparency in what we are doing. What are back links? What are the blogs? Why are we choosing these keywords? Why, why my report is there? The keyword twice or one’s local, one’s national, right? The education piece is massive for us. And what we realized then is that the more educate, the more we educate clients, right?
[00:48:04] Mark Magcaling: The more they actually entrust us, the what we do is correct, because they’re like, I don’t have time to do this at all, so that’s why I’m paying you to do it. And I think as an agency, get overwhelmed, aren’t they? They do. They do. And I think that there’s a couple things that you’ve tackled, right? I think that businesses in New Zealand are over getting cold.
[00:48:18] Mark Magcaling: Cold absolutely over it. That’s been happening. I’ve made, when I was young, a hundred to 200 cold calls a day. Cause that’s what I was told to do, right? And I can see the frustrations in businesses back in 20 11, 20 10, 2009, let alone now in 2022. And then you have, you know, multiple countries overseas caught cold calling in here, selling us the, the dream.
[00:48:38] Mark Magcaling: So as a business owner, it’s so. And like, and it’s so unfortunate for some people, like you know, who you dealt with in our company with Tom because he just made one cold call, but he had no idea that you probably received multiple cold calls, which is over promises. And he happened to be the hundredth and one cold call and he got an air full.
[00:48:55] Mark Magcaling: No one’s fault. It’s just that no one’s fault. Just,
[00:48:59] Danny de Hek: I just wanna say sorry for giving you such a hard time, Tom, and I hope that you forgive me for my rudeness, but yeah, and I’m not gonna justify my actions. But I think you are an a sping young fellow, the age of 22. I can, I often tell people, you only get better by doing.
[00:49:17] Danny de Hek: And when I found your two websites yes, there’s some improvement, but you’ve got off your laurels and you’ve done something and you’re making a difference. So well done. You and I enjoyed researching you and finding out more about you and you think you’ve got yourself pretty awesome boss there.
[00:49:30] Danny de Hek: So well done. View, don’t give up. Keep fighting the fight.
[00:49:33] Mark Magcaling: It’s the nature that we are in. I think that’s even more important for agencies in New Zealand to step up those that have a footprint, those that are legitimately doing and wanting to add value, right? And go, How can we better to take ourselves away from this grouping?
[00:49:48] Mark Magcaling: Like you said, education. And this is why our process in the very beginning is education. We’re going and obviously in your example, we use a hook to try and get you into the education piece. And that’s why we don’t actually present a solution at all, Right? Until we know there’s a problem. If there’s no problem, like if a client goes, I’m unhappy, I don’t need anymore inquiries.
[00:50:06] Mark Magcaling: I don’t care about SEO and I don’t want to grow. Well, you’re not qualified to be with us. Well, we can’t help you. Right? Yeah. Like,
[00:50:13] Danny de Hek: you’re happy you’ve got it. Yeah. I certainly like your approach and I, I wouldn’t be talking to you otherwise. And you’re a fast talker and got the gift of the gab, and that’s what I’ve got as well.
[00:50:21] Danny de Hek: It’s a, it’s a beautiful thing, but it’s it’s, there is like, I think right now, like my business, my business networking company, I lost that. When we tried to make everyone go into Zoom after Covid, you know, and I just shut it down two weeks ago. I’ve been eight, nine years in doing it. And I’m exhausted as a business owner.
[00:50:38] Danny de Hek: And I’m wondering how many other businesses like I used to, I have these questions that I asked people at my meetings and one of the questions was, What’s your five year business plan? Now, I used to ask that question before covid. and they’d all have answers and they’re gonna do this, this, and these days you ask that question and people just look at you like, I dunno what the hell I’m doing.
[00:50:57] Danny de Hek: I’m hoping to get a 12 month run at my business to make it sustain itself. I’m trying to survive. You know? Yeah. So, I mean, I’m trying to think, Well, you know, how can, like if we were to network together, how can we help a business? Like most people don’t have a budget and they go, Oh, well I’m a business.
[00:51:20] Mark Magcaling: Yeah. I agree. Look, there’s many ways I think you hit the nail on the head, which is the education piece, right? And this is something that we’ve been very, very hard on in our own marketing, in our social media content. We run monthly webinars that are free for every business to jump into, and whether you are a client of ours or not.
[00:51:33] Mark Magcaling: And the whole point is to educate. Because what we’ve done, what we are doing, and I think what we should be doing, Danny, to kind of, to weed out the, the agencies that we’ve been discussing that are not providing the values at the.
[00:51:44] Danny de Hek: you think that’s a great way of representing your company? Making sure that, I mean, often people call me and because I’m into building personal brands and I have a massive personal brand myself, people think I strike my own ego.
[00:51:59] Danny de Hek: Honestly, having a personal brand is paramount because when people phone you, I can tell they feel like they already know me. So if your personal brand is really showing people your authenticity and the like, but when I look at these images of these guys, you know, this is a general manager. I mean, it looks like a fun company to work for.
[00:52:18] Danny de Hek: And I just take my hat off to a company like this. I’ve always wanted to be a project manager for an internet company like this. And it’s quite fun. So I feel a bit embarrassed the fact that I chopped into Tom so hard. But anyway, let’s carry on.
[00:52:32] Mark Magcaling: If an agency can provide free content and expose their strategies on how they do it, right, that they’ve got nothing to hide.
[00:52:39] Mark Magcaling: Those that can’t do that, have something to hide. Right, Because they rely on a very heavy sales strategy where they’re trying to convict a client, a potential prospect, into buying something emotionally on the spot. Yeah. And that’s dangerous. Very dangerous. So, but we know that we, you really shouldn’t buy anything on the spot ever.
[00:52:56] Mark Magcaling: You should always, the emotional, it should be a logical decision, not an emotional one.
[00:53:00] Danny de Hek: So Tom used his private phone number and that’s probably the worst thing he could have done for people like me, because Yeah. Yeah. I’m chatting to my mate who’s doing the one and a half million dollars worth of sales.
[00:53:09] Danny de Hek: He said, Who’s this guy? So we found where he lived, we found his two websites. We found his LinkedIn profile. We found the three companies he’s worked for. We went through all the websites, had a look, picked them all to bits, did a video. And then I thought, I don’t even like the sound of this video I did.
[00:53:25] Mark Magcaling: would you rather deal with someone that gave you the personal mobile? Which is something that we do a lot in our business, right? So we have full transparency or a block.
[00:53:32] Danny de Hek: I think what, from my perspective what I liked about Tom is he’d had a go to do drop shipping, but hadn’t been successful.
[00:53:39] Danny de Hek: Mm. So he hadn’t even implemented the knowledge that he was. Then he fes up and he said, Look, I’m just a lead generator. And I go, Okay, all right. That’s different. You’re not. I do the talk and I do the walk. I mean, I, I, I encourage people to do drop shipping. So my partner and I got five drop shipping websites.
[00:53:55] Danny de Hek: We do over $200,000 worth of sales a year, and that’s helped us survive over losing my other business. Yeah. And now we are doing, we’re setting up drop shipping websites for people. And we’re gonna give them basically a Shell website and then we’re gonna educate them how to use it. But the obstacles that you may have, that I may have, that people are busy and they just wanna know how to do it, but they don’t wanna spend any time
[00:54:18] Danny de Hek: Yeah, that’s the problem. But you need the time, You need the, How do we help people do that?
[00:54:22] Mark Magcaling: Yeah. It’s, it’s honestly, we’ve gotta change that mindset, right? Cause if you’re a business owner, you have to create the time. It’s so simple. Like one of the, the best business owners I’ve ever worked with in terms of my experience in marketing and branding are those that have some concept and idea of what marketing they’re doing because they don’t feel like they’re left out of the dark.
[00:54:40] Mark Magcaling: The ones we struggle with the most are those that have no idea where they just spray and walk away. They’re like, Hey, I’m paying you six month per month. All at once leads. And that’s fine. It makes sense. But in reality, you don’t see the process that we’ve gone through. You have no value in what we are doing.
[00:54:54] Mark Magcaling: And they just, the the same adage that I have no time. I have no time. But if you don’t have time for marketing, right? Which is such a key ingredient, if not one of the key ingredients in your business success. , what are you putting time in? Right? Like it’s, it’s something that you need to do. Just to answer your question, I feel like business owners need to take the responsibility to upco themselves.
[00:55:12] Mark Magcaling: They really need to because they can feel crap immediately. So if someone call calls you and says something, Cause your knowledge base is so high, right? So high, higher than the, Sorry, my ego now No, no, no. But this is why someone can call for you and say something and you go, No, that’s not correct to the average.
[00:55:28] Mark Magcaling: They’re like, I’m not on page one. You’re right. Geez. Like, that’s okay. Let’s have a meeting. Right? And that will work. And that’s where obviously that, that problem is. So I think to answer your question, in order to help business owners, they have to invest time in understanding what marketing works for them.
[00:55:41] Mark Magcaling: Now they realize after investing and educating themselves and going, This is what I, I think I need to do. Right? And if you go, I have no time to do this, then find an agency to do it right? Yeah. But if you’re gonna go to an agency and the hopes that you paid them per month and they change your whole business model without you contributing towards anything, apart from reviewing a monthly report once a month, I don’t think it’s a recipe for success.
[00:56:02] Danny de Hek: No, I think you need to have, you need to be active. It’s
[00:56:08] Danny de Hek: every single one. It’s education. You guys, it’s not that hard. It’s not rocket science, it’s to he science. But you need to educate. You need to understand. Often I say to people and I interrupt and there it’s like a JTA puzzle.
[00:56:21] Danny de Hek: And you know, I left school at 14, alright? And I turned 15 over school holidays. So I can say I did Now I had no education at all. I literally used to knock on people’s doors asking them if I could tell, telling them I had to lawn my own business. And then they say, Oh, good on you. And I say, And one of you be interested in me mowing your lawns.
[00:56:40] Danny de Hek: And they would say, Yeah, how much do you charge? And I’d say, $10 an hour. And they’d say, That sounds cool. Yes. When can you start? And I say, Well, straight away can I borrow your lawnmower? Didn’t have any equipment. And then they got me sweeping their drives, cleaning their spouting, trimming their trees.
[00:56:53] Danny de Hek: And I built up a little business at the age of 15 by doing that. You know, So but when it come to technology, I couldn’t get my head around it. And I really struggled. And now I’m fully in bed with technology now. I use voice recognition to do my writing. I select the words and I have them read to me so I can comprehend them.
[00:57:12] Danny de Hek: Cause I’m very dyslexic. Okay? So I’ve got a reading level of nine year old Now, to me, technology was like a jex puzzle. You do all the straight bits, you put all the straight bits together, and then you put all the color bits together and you look at the pictures and you try to make them all fit. And you just keep applying yourself and then all of a sudden the overall picture will become very clear.
[00:57:40] Danny de Hek: And then you just put all the other bits that you couldn’t figure out in, in a way you go, So don’t think you’re stupid or don’t think I don’t get my head around this. Have a go. If I can do it, you can do it. I mean, Look at what I’m doing with my YouTube channel. I mean, I originally started off doing a YouTube channel to gain I wanted a thousand subscribers within six weeks so I could put together a workshop teaching people how to do the same because when you give a thousand subscribers, you can monetize your YouTube channel and you can actually make money from it.
[00:58:11] Danny de Hek: Now, I just wanted to get the knowledge, but now I’ve got the knowledge. I actually wanna be a full-time YouTuber, not because of the money, because I like doing these videos, and I love engaging with people. So if you do comment on this video and tell me your 2 cents worth, I’m not gonna shoot you down.
[00:58:27] Danny de Hek: I’m gonna engage with you. I love the comments. And if you had the, like that tells YouTube you like my video, that’s what it’s for. thumbs up, I should say, And then they’ll send this video out to the masses because you’ve liked it. Other people will like it. And YouTube want to have a feel good factor. And if you subscribe to my YouTube channel, Then that also tells them that you like my content and then hit the bell.
[00:58:49] Danny de Hek: You’ll be notified as soon as a new video drops and that’s how it works. But don’t think you’re stupid cuz you don’t get your head around. At least give it a go because Mark’s got a team of people helping market people’s businesses. You know, I’m only surviving at the moment because I’ve got, my partner and I have got five drop shipping websites.
[00:59:09] Danny de Hek: My partner’s a professional photographer and I also do quite a lot of website development, but I don’t haven’t done any for years, to be honest. I don’t really want to do it anymore. I wanna be a YouTuber. So it’s where you put your energy and your time, you’ll be successful, but if you don’t change anything and expect different results, that’s stupidity.
[00:59:29] Danny de Hek: Anyway. Back to our friend, Mark. Mark. Hit the right button. Danny. The clients that you
[00:59:34] Mark Magcaling: work with, you have a relat. Right. Like, you know, their full names, something about their family, something about their hobbies and something about their business. It ain’t just a chat about stats and data, it’s like, Hey, how’s everything going at a deeper level?
[00:59:48] Danny de Hek: become a therapist for people. I don’t even do for people hardly anymore because I just got, you know, I just do my own stuff. You know, I used to have a network of 15,000 pages. It was called New Zealand’s Information Network. Wow. And I used to travel around New Zealand telling people I was a mobile internet consultant and I’d, I can’t read and write.
[01:00:07] Danny de Hek: I literally got a reading level of a nine year old. Oh no. And I’d gonna repeat a scanner that I would take with me in the car and I’d get the brochure, scan all their images in, and then I’d copy the text word for word and get it the same as their brochure and put it online. Wow. $300 to set it up and $30 a month to keep it online.
[01:00:25] Danny de Hek: And I built up a network of 15,000 page. By just doing that over 1996 and right up to about 1999, I got hell of a lot of criticism for what I was doing, cuz it was spelling mistakes and the line nine yards and all this sort of stuff. But the, the point of that was I started, You don’t have to be good tomorrow.
[01:00:44] Danny de Hek: Don’t be perfect tomorrow. It’d be good today because tomorrow never comes sort of thing, you know? So, and that’s why, you know, once again, Tom, I gave him a barreling. But people’s expectations grew and I couldn’t maintain their expectation. They just wanted more. You know, at one point I had 45 different rental car companies using me to do 99% of their internet advertising.
[01:01:04] Danny de Hek: H rentals, a Tob, rental cars, Pacific Horizon, Camper vans, Pegasus Rental Cars. You save rental cars. You knew who they were, just all of it, you know. And then every time I got a new customer on board, I just got more inquiries. But then they all wanted to manage their own. Websites. Yeah. And I, my websites were one part of a big large network and I just lost them one at a time.
[01:01:25] Danny de Hek: And, you know, and I, I think my best year for my business was half a million dollars worth of turnover in a year. And my wages were about 2 75, take home wages for one year. And I just thought I was unstoppable. Yeah. You know, and I was doing some really clips. This is the nineties
[01:01:39] Mark Magcaling: as well, right? This is the nineties or 2 75.
[01:01:42] Danny de Hek: Like, that’s, Well that was, yeah, that was 2 0 4. I, I made the most money and I got involved with everything you see? So it’s like, but these days I just haven’t got it in me to even educating people in the trickery that you need to do to fool the search engines and the different things. I mean, I, you know, and I, I’d rather be an advisor than actually do the work.
[01:02:02] Danny de Hek: Cause I meeting the customer’s expectation is demoralizing because they go over the limit sometimes and what they expect for the time it takes to get the good results. Yeah.
[01:02:14] Mark Magcaling: And that’s the, that’s honestly you’re spot on Danny. And I think business owners, if you are watching this or somehow listen to this, there’s almost no marketing.
[01:02:22] Mark Magcaling: And this is based on 15 years of my experience that generate results overnight. It just, it’s just, it takes time because marketing is about two things, in my opinion, attention and trust, right? Attention’s quick. You can do, you can do that. You can put an ad tomorrow that gains a bit of attention. It doesn’t mean I’ll trust, right?
[01:02:40] Mark Magcaling: So trust will take time because people need to trust your brand in order to inquire with you, and they will gravitate towards other brands that they trust more. So what you’ve gotta ask yourself is, off my 10 competitors in the industry right now, where am I on a scale of one to 10 and trust levels?
[01:02:55] Mark Magcaling: Well, these companies are eights and nines and number four. So no matter what marketing you do with attention, if they don’t trust your brand, then they’re not gonna inquire with you cause you’re, you’re so spot on. But also that, what that means is it takes time to build trust. So you need to start plugging away and putting strategies in place that builds trust.
[01:03:12] Mark Magcaling: This is all we have with so many other brands, right? Like we have such a trusted brands. I say this all the time to business owners. I said that if you are hungry, like I can almost guarantee that one of the top 10 foods you would eat is a fast food joint. McDonald’s, kfc, Burger King, something somewhere in the top 10 because of the way they have instilled marketing in you from a young age, right?
[01:03:33] Mark Magcaling: It’s, it’s a long game. Marketing. It’s not a short term thing. I think businesses want something immediately, right? They’re like, Hey, I’ve given you $2,000. I expect 20 leads tomorrow. And not gonna say that. And SEOs even harder because how long does it take to get a keyword on the first page of SEO? Who knows?
[01:03:50] Mark Magcaling: No one knows. You cannot tell me it takes six to 18 months unless you are on that website working, measuring a month’s data and. Okay, this might be nine months if we do these things. And even then I can’t guarantee it because it’s so dependent on the algorithms, the other sites, your content, your speed, your meters, your headers.
[01:04:09] Mark Magcaling: There’s so much involved in it, and this is why I think business owners go to agencies because it’s too complicated, very complicated.
[01:04:17] Danny de Hek: It’s more, yeah, probably think. Do I think you guys can make a difference to somebody who knows nothing? I definitely do. I no thing about that. I think what really got my back, and I did give Tom a bit of a hard time, was the fact that coming up and, you know, he didn’t understand my business.
[01:04:37] Danny de Hek: You know, and I think and I know that even if I paid you guys whatever, I’m, I feel like I’m at maximum philosophy with my website. So it’s a square. Not all pegs fit in the same hole. Suppose that makes sense. But , it would be
[01:04:49] Mark Magcaling: an unqualified client in our opinion. Right? So if we had, if we had progressed into a discovery session where we would’ve known more about your business and the way it was set up, The discussion should have been, if it was a very well trained BDM or acquisition strategist, it was like, Hey, we are not the right fit because we actually can’t help you.
[01:05:05] Mark Magcaling: Cuz you know you are good by yourself, , you’re good. Like we, we, you know, the type of client that we can assist and show value in for our agency rates, those are gonna be people that we can provide real value because they don’t have the time or knowledge that we’ve had to acquire in order for us to charge equally to what we’re charging.
[01:05:21] Mark Magcaling: So for someone like me, with your knowledge, if we were to charge to call it 2000 a month, right? Part of that 2000 a month that we charge is because we have all the knowledge and expertise that we’ve acquired over 10, 15 years that you don’t have. So if we speak to someone that has that knowledge, how can we charge two grand a month?
[01:05:36] Mark Magcaling: We can’t. Cause you’ve already acquired that same, It’s like me going, it’s like me being a doctor and going to another. It’s like I can self-assess myself, I can get a second opinion, that’s fine. But to get them to be my gp, it’s a bit different because we have the same knowledge. So all I need is second opinion.
[01:05:53] Mark Magcaling: And I think what you need for businesses similar in your similar situation is that you need a second opinion more than an agency to actually action and going, Am I heading in the right directions than anything that I’m doing that you think could be better,
[01:06:05] Danny de Hek: that I need not to be so grumpy when people cold call me, but don’t cold call me.
[01:06:10] Danny de Hek: I don’t want you guys cold calling me. Okay? And I don’t want your emails. I don’t want any more Izzy emails, especially if I’m India. Cuz I’m getting ruder and ruder and I’m getting grumpier as I get older. But don’t cold call Danny de Hek. Okay? And whatever you do, I’m gonna say this on a big screen.
[01:06:30] Danny de Hek: Whatever you do, never ring up Danny de Hek. And tell ’em that you have an opportunity for a Ponzi scheme. Okay. It doesn’t go down well. I will be really rude, but this guy was lovely in this company. I take my hat off to them. There’s a good Kiwiana website company out there who I’d thoroughly recommend if you need to do some SEO.
[01:06:52] Danny de Hek: I honestly, I really liked the way he handled me and the way he got me back on track and he didn’t let the bridge that I burnt stay on fire. He went and fixed it. So, well done Mark. And good I you Tom, for calling me cuz it’s nice to meet your company. So not all things end terribly. Wouldn’t you agree?
[01:07:12] Danny de Hek: you should be having. Yeah. I’m all about sharing people’s experience, knowledge and skills and and I think. That’s why I’ve been in business networking for so many years and I just love, you know, if I, if I go to a meeting and I learn one thing, I mean, if I was saying what did I learn from you guys today is probably not to be so hard on somebody doing a lead generation.
[01:07:29] Danny de Hek: What I did like about Tom, he spoke very good English . Yeah. I still didn’t have to wait for the ABX to click in , you know, own mobile phone, Don’t forget. So, yeah. But I just, it was like poor Tom because it was actually like a red flag to a bull, you know what I mean? You know, and I listened for a while and I thought, okay, some company, And also, the funny thing is I got a phone call from another company about two weeks earlier that used the same government incentive.
[01:07:58] Danny de Hek: Are you aware of a government incentive thing? And I thought, Oh my goodness. Just, and I just recently had. Guy that had got kept I keep getting his emails and I finished up doing a video on him because I was so sick of his emails. And every time he said he promised I’m out of his database, I’d get another email and it would be, and this has been going on for years.
[01:08:17] Danny de Hek: And then eventually I just had enough. You know, and just ironically I got another email from a, another associated company from ’em again. And it’s just like, I’m so tired of this stuff. It’s kind of like war out there at the moment. Yeah.
[01:08:28] Mark Magcaling: I just don’t understand how these cold emails are being allowed.
[01:08:31] Mark Magcaling: It’s insane. Cause I thought there was some database privacy that you could, I mean, I know that the massive companies resell our email database to other companies, which is what they do. Yeah. But it’s coming more profound now. These cold emails, it’s everywhere. And if you cold emails is one thing. Imagine the cold dms on LinkedIn.
[01:08:46] Mark Magcaling: I mean, you have 7,000 followers on LinkedIn. You have a very strong following base on LinkedIn. You must get so many cold dms.
[01:08:52] Danny de Hek: Yeah, well you do. But To put that in perspective, I am big on social media. Not all social media works for me. YouTube works for me. Facebook, I hate it, but I would probably get at least 500 notifications a day at least.
[01:09:10] Danny de Hek: And I, they interrupt me. Like right now, it’s 11 minutes past 11 on a Wednesday night, I’m home alone. My partner’s gone off to, to outta town with her son. And I find this time of night the best time to get stuff done because I’m not interrupted. And and I get shit done . So the notifications that you get from social media, are they worth your time and energy?
[01:09:34] Danny de Hek: You know since I’ve been in the New York Times, I’ve noticed that my tick to and all of a sudden got a whole lot of people following me. So then there’s a demographics of people out there who listen to the New York will watch the, Read The New York Times, who wanna connect with me on TikTok. I’m 52 years of age.
[01:09:51] Danny de Hek: I’m not really a talk ticker, , if you know what I mean. Even though. Side story. One of my ticks has had 900,000 people Look at it. When I was in India, I’m a third world traveler of, I’ve been to 35 countries, love traveling third world countries. So I went to India two weeks before Covid started happening around the world three years ago.
[01:10:12] Danny de Hek: And I took a video of VAAs and VAAs where they actually burned the the dead. And I did a sweeping video, 30 seconds long, put it on TikTok, and over a month it got up to about six, 700,000 people. Interesting enough, the video before and after it, I only received 5,000 views. So it didn’t really make a difference to my TikTok account.
[01:10:37] Danny de Hek: I have 20,000 people following me on TikTok. All right? And they’re genuine people. So having genuine, not buying people that some people do, Dear Amy won’t mention that. What I’m trying to say is it didn’t change my life. You know, you can engage with people on one platform and you, it can be exhausting.
[01:10:53] Danny de Hek: The 80 20 rule may apply in your social media marketing. Find the one that works. I’m on all platforms because I need to understand how they work, simply because I was doing workshops, helping people get their head around them. The best thing you can do is find 15 social media platforms. Make sure you have the same photo as your profile image.
[01:11:14] Danny de Hek: Make sure your backdrop is the same. Have a look at my social media that I was showing off before, and you’ll see that I’m consistent all the way through. And if you liken your social media to be like the grandstand at a game, you can sit in LinkedIn and talk to other people who like that platform. But if you’re wearing well-branded clothes and you’re in a bright orange suit of a bright orange, When they jump from one green stand like Facebook or Instagram or Tumblr or Twitch or YouTube, and you are wearing the same branding, they will recognize you and when they land from the social media and go onto the game, which is the field where your website is that you control, they won’t realize that they’ve jumped out of social media and onto your website, and then you can sell them.
[01:12:07] Danny de Hek: Easy. That’s how it works. But it takes a lot of effort. But I don’t spend all day on Facebook and I don’t spend all day on Instagram. I do spend all day on YouTube, but that’s because I like doing YouTube videos. Let’s carry on. I’ve even take my LinkedIn premium off now. I don’t, I’ve had that for, I don’t know, 10 years.
[01:12:23] Danny de Hek: You don’t need it anymore, right? At this date? You, Well, I don’t need it, but I just I, I’ve done courses on LinkedIn and I’ve showed people how to, you know, how to chat to people, you know, I mean, what you just said earlier on you said give value, give value, give value, give value. And it comes a point where I give a lot of value, but I don’t get paid for it, and I’ve got bills to pay and I, I just get exhausted.
[01:12:41] Danny de Hek: And then I get people who don’t listen or don’t do. I mean, in, in my business networking game, what used to be my pet peeve is that right? The thing that pissed me off the most is that people would say and not do, and that like for us to have this meeting today, you booked, you turned up, you’re here. I have so much more respect for you and your company.
[01:13:02] Danny de Hek: And also your approach wasn’t to burn a bridge and you know, like I’m yelling down the phone at Tom because I just want him off my phone, and I’m being a Pratt because I’m going, I don’t want these phone calls. No. And then I hunted them down like an animal, found him and got chatting to him again. He said, This guy won’t go away.
[01:13:18] Danny de Hek: And I said, Well, think twice before you call me next time. And then I said, Get your boss to ring me. And you did. And then you rang me. And the way you handled it, I mean, I don’t wanna be known as a Pratt , but I listen my own phone calls, I might have been well, I would be Oh, handle it different next time.
[01:13:36] Mark Magcaling: No, I think for the record, don’t forget, you’ve had a similar, you have multiple experiences leading up to that phone call, right? Yeah. So like, you had the cold calls, you had the emails of, it’s, I call it minor trauma. I’m
[01:13:46] Danny de Hek: a victim of social media market. People can find me on any platform and then try and sell me stomach.
[01:13:53] Danny de Hek: And it gets exhausting when you’ve done your marketing too. Good.
[01:13:56] Mark Magcaling: Right? In the sense that we’ve had, Cause the cold calls is trauma the amount of times in the past and 10 years ago when I cold call and the person I would speak to was absolutely mad. I’m like, I, I, I’ve never spoken to you because I know you got cold calls 2, 3, 4 times that day or whatever it was and he just fed up and like we, business is hard, right?
[01:14:13] Mark Magcaling: Like, let’s be honest, like this is something I tell some of our outbound agents, if someone is angry at you and says no to you on a Monday, doesn’t mean they won’t give you your time on a Friday, right? Because they could be busy with a client or busy with an email or some, some staff member called in sick for the day.
[01:14:26] Mark Magcaling: Now they gotta work. And then you cold call them trying to sell them a solution. You’re interrupting their day. This is why I found it really interesting because part of the discussion I’m looking at cuz my, my background is in, I’m a human behavior specialist. I’m a psychologist by trade and went into marketing branding and I, I want to know if
[01:14:50] Mark Magcaling: No, it’s not dead. But I’m like, but it’s important that we train our cold calling even better now, because if not, this is the outcome, right?
[01:14:56] Danny de Hek: Yeah. But is this, is this, this is oxymoron, is this a bad outcome?
[01:15:01] Mark Magcaling: No, not at all. But this is, this is one out of a million outcomes and that seems choice.
[01:15:06] Danny de Hek: See, I’m in the relationship building business and, you know, I believe the dropping tap people no, I don’t. I you get to know people. The more you speak to people, if you just become a better version of yourself, it’s gonna be easy for you to connect with other people.
[01:15:22] Danny de Hek: Now, let’s say Mark and I technically started off in a bad way and I blew the shit out of Tom, but by Mark’s action, he won me over. And now we’ve got a relationship of some sort. So not all things that start bad, stay bad. And you should always work with the goal in mind to smooth out any crinkles that you have in a relationship, not just with business, but in personal life.
[01:15:49] Danny de Hek: I mean, I hate when I’ve burnt a bridge with somebody and you walk into a mall or a supermarket and you see that person and you think, Oh, there’s such and such. I, I, you know, we all have disagreements, but it’s, it’s how you handle them. And honestly, I really enjoyed Mark and the way we had a good relationship.
[01:16:08] Danny de Hek: We had a lot of common interest. And maybe I’m a victim of too much on my plate at the moment. Maybe I’m exhausted. I am. I’ve lost my, one of my businesses, I’ve worked for eight or nine years. You know, I couldn’t make something. I’m so passionate about work and I had to throw the talent on it. You know, it was just horrible.
[01:16:29] Danny de Hek: And I actually felt like when I shut down my business networking company two or three weeks ago, that I felt like I failed something I was passionate about. And I’m not a failure. I’ve done lots of amazing things, but I couldn’t, I didn’t have the time and energy to keep that business going. I couldn’t build it back after Covid 19.
[01:16:51] Danny de Hek: I didn’t wanna start recruiting people. It’s just not my business. I’ve done it. It’s time to close that chapter and move on to the next thing. I wanna be a YouTuber. That’s what I wanna do. That’s what I’m passionate about. If you find something you’re passionate about and you make a living out of it, you’ll never work another day in your life.
[01:17:08] Mark Magcaling: actually. Right? So if there was a million times, call it a thousand times that you reacted that way, 999 times would’ve been bad. Right? In my opinion. Because I think we were just lucky enough that we have me, you, and Tom and all in the same situations that we led to this.
[01:17:22] Mark Magcaling: And it’s become a very healthy discussion because what it allowed me to do was going, what’s wrong with the script? Is there a way that we can better this to not piss off
[01:17:29] Danny de Hek: clients? Don’t tell me I come up on page eight in the search engine
[01:17:34] Mark Magcaling: so that we can actually show them that we’re trying to add value.
[01:17:36] Mark Magcaling: Yeah. Qualify them. Cause it’s so hard to qualify someone on the phone, on a
[01:17:40] Danny de Hek: cold call. So now I know you’d be watching this mark. Why not have the approach that you tell people that you were searching Google and you found their website coming up really good, that might blow them away, but you think we could do it slightly better with tweaking it a wee bit?
[01:17:56] Danny de Hek: A different approach, but honest truth. I mean, people have rang me up numerous times telling my website doesn’t rank and I go, Well how did you find me ? You know? Right.
[01:18:06] Mark Magcaling: And if I come from a time, Danny, where in 2011 we were selling marketing for a particular directory. I’m not gonna say who, where the training was trained, that we could get someone in and out of a phone call within five minutes.
[01:18:18] Mark Magcaling: Right. With a sale within five minutes. Yeah, that’s emotional selling. You are selling them emotionally, not logically. Right? So that, And I know if we just think about the things that we all bought emotionally, not just marketing, we regret it later, later on when we start thinking logically and we’re like, Why did I do that impulse purchase?
[01:18:36] Mark Magcaling: Right? And they create problematic clients. So for us, we know that if we follow the. Or where we are not emotionally selling, we create a logical solution, assuming there’s a problem, if there’s no problem not qualified. That simple. Yeah.
[01:18:49] Danny de Hek: I, I went to a business networking event. I put on, there was 60 businesses there and we used to have a format where each person got to talk for two minutes and then they got to the other person, got to pitch their business and then we’d switch tables like speed dating.
[01:19:02] Danny de Hek: But business style, personally I hate that. Pitching bus. I don’t like people pitching their businesses at me. I’d rather say, What’s your pet’s name and what’d you do on the weekend? And what’s your activities? And build that personal relationship up first. Yeah. However, everyone was sitting there and they, I’ve done these events quite a lot.
[01:19:18] Danny de Hek: They had their business card ready and I’ve got a public speaker to come along to a 20 minute talk on the art of. And I thought that was brilliant because everyone was ready to pitch, but now they’ve just been told that being a good lister is, is more better. And I, I think the value I’ve got out of being a person, as I said earlier, I’m dyslexia.
[01:19:35] Danny de Hek: I really struggled the written word and the like, but I’ve done a lot of speaker training. I’ve gone to Toastmaster I did a do carne course. I got it gifted to me actually by somebody who was at my networking and the art of, you know, being intuitive to listen to people knowing somebody’s name, using somebody’s name in a conversation.
[01:19:53] Danny de Hek: I mean, I don’t know how many people hang up on Tom, but I’m kind of thinking that when you ring up somebody say, Look, I’m Tom I’m from a internet marketing company called blah. Rather than say, rattle off a name, like I should know it. And I’m not saying he did. You listen to the calls, you know it, when you’ve got, you’ve only got, you’d know this, You’ve only got a minute to actually talk to somebody before they hang up or they wanna carry on talking to you.
[01:20:18] Danny de Hek: So there would be techniques that Tom will get better at naturally. Yeah. And I think I’d, you know, like when I checked out what he did and the go he’s had at being entrepreneur online, I was actually really impressed with him. He’s tried, he’s 22 years old. Trying. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I mean, I, you know, I sold everything I owned when I was 23 and hitchhiked around New Zealand selling websites.
[01:20:41] Danny de Hek: And I even bought the first digital camera that come into the market on my credit card maxed out with, and I had $300 in my bank account. And I’m hoping, and I went on every, I knocked on every door I could in Queenstown. No one wanted my business. I finished up going to Wika. No one wanted my business.
[01:20:56] Danny de Hek: And then I went to Lake Har where, and the guy goes, Yeah, we’ll do it. We’ll put you up free accommodation while you build us a. and then my phone started ringing the tandem skydive Oneika people said to me, Oh, we want a website, but we’ve got no money and we’ll throw you out of an airplane, . And so I said, Okay.
[01:21:13] Danny de Hek: And then eventually I started doing the websites for Blackwater rafting, the Holly Services. And I’m literally a young guy hanging out of a helicopter. I went in 14 helicopters in I think three days using my, my five 12 K memory camera, hanging out of a helicopter, trying to take photos of the glaciers.
[01:21:31] Danny de Hek: And I thought, how did I find myself here, , You know? And it was because I had the initiative to start things. So I, Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s important. I mean, I just, I, I personally feel that businesses are really struggling. Yeah. You just don’t like seeing them put money into things where they’re not getting a.
[01:21:47] Danny de Hek: And SEO companies to me, you know, I have I’ve had probably a lot of bad experiences and to me, if I charge $700 and spent literally like my mate, he paid me two hours as he paid me an hour and a half. I did $500 worth of work of him and he is up to about 300. And I said, Well how about we’re top it up to 500?
[01:22:05] Danny de Hek: I do your SEO. And he goes, Yeah, done. Cool. That was his budget. Nice. You know, But then the difference I made, I know myself, I would’ve made a difference doing his SEO for him. Yeah.
[01:22:16] Mark Magcaling: Massive. More than what you, more than what he
[01:22:18] Danny de Hek: paid to do. Right. But whether he values it, he might not for a while, but he knows me and he is got that relationship.
[01:22:24] Danny de Hek: So I think I would be building those relationships, you know, And it’s, I, if I talk to you, the first thing I do is I connect with you on. , I go to your LinkedIn profile, check out who you are. I go through, I look at all your activities that you’ve been doing. With Tom, I went and looked at his the last three companies he worked for.
[01:22:43] Danny de Hek: I went through all the websites. So don’t think people, I mean, I don’t know if I’m, Well, I am a bit unusual, but I research who’s talking to me. I search for people’s phone numbers. You Yeah. I surprised when he lived in a 1.4 million house and I’m thinking he still lives at home and mum and dad, I think you know Yu Yeah.
[01:22:59] Danny de Hek: And he’s just a kid trying and have a go. And I think that’s you know, good.
[01:23:03] Mark Magcaling: I’m saying Yeah, we have to encourage that. Cause we need more entrepreneurs. We do.
[01:23:06] Danny de Hek: Yeah. They don’t teach it at school.
[01:23:09] Mark Magcaling: No, they don’t. And the school, And we know how, how delight or how back backwards the schooling system is. Cause once you leave school, you’re like, Wow, I knew none of this.
[01:23:16] Mark Magcaling: Yeah. I didn’t, No one tell me about tax. It’s like, what? Yeah. Like why do I spend six years in that and telling me about all these things and no one told me that I have to pay tax. Now, certain percentages, like I know adults that are in their thirties. I don’t understand tax brackets. And how they work.
[01:23:30] Mark Magcaling: They think that the highest tax bracket means they’re gonna tax the whole figure of that tax bracket. Yes.
[01:23:35] Danny de Hek: Yeah. I remember that when I got there. I’m thinking, Oh my goodness. I and this, yeah, it was at the time I put myself into a trust thinking I can you know, say for my dollars, you know, And but it was only, I went after the, I think it was 60 at the time, but now it’s 80, isn’t it?
[01:23:47] Danny de Hek: You go over that three. Yeah. Yeah. And
[01:23:49] Mark Magcaling: these are the things that we, you know, I, I think that we as a, as a farming nation like New Zealand tourism and farming nation, we realize how, how really how imprisoned we are to our main economy drivers, Right? Which is farming and tourism. When tourism disappeared, this country’s struggled.
[01:24:03] Mark Magcaling: Still is struggling to the state. Yeah. So we need more entrepreneurs doing things that in the tech world, because it’s got no time, it’s got no time zone problems, it’s got no currency issues. And you have clients throughout the whole world. Imagine, imagine if one of our companies, one of our agencies in New Zealand right, became one of the largest media agencies in the world.
[01:24:39] Danny de Hek: Yeah, he does. NZ Tech podcast. And you’re in Auckland, aren’t you? I am, yeah. In North Shore, right? Yeah, cuz I’m going up there on the 20th because my partner’s family live and, and I go out there for Christmas, but I normally catch up with Paul. And Paul, there was a, an app over lockdown called Clubhouse.
[01:24:55] Danny de Hek: Mm-hmm. I know, but Yep, yep. And we, I spent probably a year of my life in there and that was all, that was really good sort of, I’d do podcasting, so I wanted to learn more about my gear and talk to other podcasters and figure out what microphones are good and all that sort of stuff. So they helped me a lot and I met Paul and now we’ve got a we network of people.
[01:25:14] Danny de Hek: that I go visit. So I mean, hey, if we’re in Auckland, yeah, let’s catch up and have a cup of coffee. And I would
[01:25:19] Mark Magcaling: love to, Danny, like I said to you, there’s things that I, that you’ve said that has a lot of merit that I’d love to unpack and I feel like I can just kind of ask you more questions cuz Canterbury’s a particular region compared to Auckland.
[01:25:29] Mark Magcaling: Right. It’s very different in that sense. I would personally rather be in Canterbury because of how Auckland is at the moment. And we have actually, we have three project managers in our company are from Canterbury, Right. That have moved up from here. They finished university, they couldn’t find opportunities.
[01:25:41] Mark Magcaling: They’d come up to Auckland and Great. So I’m a big fan of it, but yeah, when you are up here I’ve got you LinkedIn, you’ve got my mobile. I’d love to meet with you and unpack a bit more because a lot of merits and what you, what you’ve done. And I think that the key here is just to kind of conclude is that because of this conversation, it’s, it’s allowed us to look at our script and go, what can we do better to, you know, to not, to not let this happen again.
[01:25:58] Mark Magcaling: And there’s a lot of things I’ve learned from it already and I think that improvement,
[01:26:03] Mark Magcaling: Yeah, that’s definitely number one on that. So, And I feel bad for anyone that might call you might call you again. Unfortunately it’s gonna happen again, Danny. You know, don’t call me. Someone’s gonna call probably tomorrow.
[01:26:14] Mark Magcaling: Yeah. So all blessings to them. No, but I appreciate it. Danny, thank you very much for your time. It’s been, it’s
[01:26:18] Danny de Hek: been great. Yeah, no, it’s cool. And hopefully this has recorded properly. If it’s a horrible one, it isn’t in gallery view and it will only pop up when I talk and we won’t be sitting here side by side, which is a bit of a pain.
[01:26:30] Danny de Hek: It’s not in gallery view. And that’s while I’m doing a talk over, I’m still learning. I’ve only done like, I don’t know, hundred of these interviews and I still get it wrong, . However, it’s quite a clean recording, so I probably might scrape it out and put it on my podcast if you’re alright with that. Easy.
[01:27:00] Danny de Hek: Aus, right? I travel 35 countries and I’ve met a lot of people.
[01:27:04] Danny de Hek: Oh boy, that’s a goodie. I’m, I’m not sure actually, I’m, I, I’m, I don’t know. Is it Indonesia?
[01:27:11] Mark Magcaling: It’s close, right? This is, this is why it gets thrown off. My dad’s Puerto Rican, but my mom’s Filipino, so I’m predominantly Southeast Asian, but there’s like Spanish and Puerto Rican influence in my bo in my body.
[01:27:38] Danny de Hek: 33. We came here. Oh my god, you’re just a spring chicken.
[01:27:40] Danny de Hek: I’m a 52 year old guy. Nearly got 20 years up in you mate as well. We get
[01:27:44] Mark Magcaling: along, right? So but yeah, came here on holiday. So I’ve been here my whole life. I never, never went back to the Philippines as well. So stayed here the whole time.
[01:27:51] Danny de Hek: Right. And I’ve gotta ask because my channel, my YouTube channel’s all about busting Ponzi schemes.
[01:27:56] Danny de Hek: Have you got, do you dabble on crypto?
[01:27:58] Mark Magcaling: I did Bitcoin definitely. I bought in prior to the Covid. I bought ’em at 7,000. Oh wow. Yeah. Cause I had, I have a good friend who’s heavy into it, dollar cost averages every week. So thank you to him coming to buy. And then I got out at one of the highs in 60, about 62.
[01:28:14] Mark Magcaling: And I haven’t gone back. I haven’t got back in since. And the reason why I haven’t gone back in is because I know nothing about, I know blockchain is not gonna go away. I know it’s not, but I’ve spent no time in understanding it may, let’s hope not.
[01:28:25] Danny de Hek: Right. And what’s happen. Yeah. I love technology. People think I hate it, but I do love the technology behind it.
[01:28:29] Danny de Hek: And it’s, it’s got a purpose, but now it’s been taken over as scammers. That’s the.
[01:28:34] Mark Magcaling: Well, look what’s happened with the volatility of the market, right? I, like I said, I don’t know much about it, but watching what happened with ftx, right? And going, Whoa, if that can happen, that’s worrying, right? That’s a lot of people’s money there and it look like he might get out of it and bins out of it and whatnot.
[01:28:47] Mark Magcaling: But me personally, I have nothing in crypto
[01:28:48] Danny de Hek: at the moment, not right, So you don’t follow Ponzi scheme. So if I could interest you in investing $300 and tripling your money within a 600 days, is that appeal? You go, do you know who
[01:28:57] Mark Magcaling: you need to talk to? Funny enough? Do you know who’s really heavily into this?
[01:29:01] Mark Magcaling: Just, just, just because of fate. Do you know who it is? They’ll be able,
[01:29:04] Danny de Hek: It’s Tom. Tom. If you are investing in multi-level marketing Ponzi schemes, which you probably don’t think they are, contact me and I will give you some words of wisdom. Do not invest in Ponzi scheme, Is it Tom,
[01:29:20] Mark Magcaling: to uphold this conversation with you and probably would love
[01:29:29] Mark Magcaling: opportunities. Oh, he is like, he’s heavily invested in it as well, but he is all into the shit Queens.
[01:29:34] Danny de Hek: Oh well, crypto’s, okay. I, I put somebody in Sheu in you. See I had a mate that put 375 US and got 5 million outta crypto, then took it all out and then put it all back in again.
[01:29:49] Danny de Hek: 3 million and he was devastated. And you know, it was an interesting story to watch. You said a movie just got out. I know and it’s a, you know, everyone, timing is everything. We dunno when it’s gonna collapse, but I at for a laugh, I thought I’m gonna buy a hundred bucks worth of she you in you, whatever that is.
[01:30:05] Danny de Hek: Am I saying that right? Yeah, yeah. And I finished up, I think I bought $300 and it went up to about $1,200 return. And then I took the money out and I’m, I’m a winner cause I didn’t lose anything but , that’s,
[01:30:15] Mark Magcaling: that’s the problem, right? Most people think 41 when, when the stock’s gone up. But in reality or the market or the price has gone up in reality, you haven’t once until you cash it out.
[01:30:25] Mark Magcaling: your account. Doesn’t matter how you could have gone up 1000% and you kept it in there, you 900%, you didn’t win anything. Yeah, right. That’s not enough. But to answer your question, I worked for a company called KW d I’m the general manager of it. And with your websites, full stack marketing strategies and software.
[01:31:13] Danny de Hek: that nz, right? Yeah. That’s cool. And theoretically they should just be able to search for an app developer and they should find you.
[01:31:22] Mark Magcaling: They actually see three of our sites in the first page, so, Right. We’ve done, we got, we got in there early, right? So from our strategy, from software, we got the organics early. Yeah. And we make very strongly on organics and we receive more inquiries now on software than websites per day. And that’s a shift with the behavior in New Zealand.
[01:31:39] Mark Magcaling: Businesses are starting to go, Hey, what’s going on with software internally, externally?
[01:31:43] Danny de Hek: And what about with apps? Cause I, I used to have one myself for my business network, and it was a true app. It was standalone. It’s still talked to a database, but some of the apps now aren’t actually apps.
[01:31:53] Danny de Hek: They’re just really full on mobile. All right. Just stopping in there for a while. Now this, this is what I quite liked about this. I just searched for app developers nz. So this was done, this was recorded four or five days ago. And the very first. Paid advert was them, right, And they’ve come up number one in the results.
[01:32:14] Danny de Hek: Now my research shows that I think 17% of people actually click on the paid advertising. So it’s not gonna cost you the world to actually be in the top of the results. And then brand recognition should take over. So I scroll down and I see four other paid adverts. Now, if I was to search for their proper full name, you’ll probably find Google Maps would come up around about here, but it’s obviously not in that result, if you can see that on a small screen.
[01:32:47] Danny de Hek: But if I go down and I go 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and seven and eight, the the number eight, now that’s not bad. That’s eight’s not bad. Being on the page one is very good because. But being on page one twice is even better, even if it has to be paid for. So do a little bit of paid advertising. You know, I mean, this whole video is actually about, are you being exploited by SEO companies?
[01:33:16] Danny de Hek: Is SEO a scam? Well, if the company rings you up and says, Look, we can get you on the top five. You know, we can give you five keywords, and you’ll be in the top of the search engines and you think, Oh, great. Cause let’s say, let’s take the word loan. Now. I’m not sure of the actual stats, but I think it’s about $14 a click for coming up.
[01:33:37] Danny de Hek: When someone searches the word loan, now you’re competing with banks, You’re competing with, Oh no, mortgage brokers, whatever. And to be at the top of the results, every time somebody clicks it, it’s gonna cost you $14. It’s over $10 of $14 around there. In America, it costs you $42. Every time somebody clicks that link.
[01:33:59] Danny de Hek: That’s what the stats were a few years ago. But by having a well balanced campaign, a bit of everything, that’s what you really should have a goal of having. So let me finish up my waffle. I’ve only got a couple of minutes left. Bunch of
[01:34:11] Mark Magcaling: websites, webs. Yeah. So there’s a, there’s a difference, right? So there’s web applications and there’s software solutions.
[01:34:17] Danny de Hek: Yep. Wow. Good stuff. Cause that’s a really hard industry to break into. So congratulations.
[01:34:22] Mark Magcaling: Well, the hard part now is hardware, right? So one of the limitations we have is software that needs hardware. And because that’s where, that now needs an external manufacturing leg that we don’t have and we have to partner it with in order for hardware to work.
[01:34:33] Mark Magcaling: Like for example, I’m wearing something called a work strap, which is a fitness bracelet. Yep. But that works on an application, right? But you need the hardware to work the application. So we’ve realized that’s the next installment of the businesses moving forward is that how do we fix the hardware
[01:34:49] Danny de Hek: Alright, good on you. Right. So are you open to say, in six months time, coming back on my
[01:34:53] Mark Magcaling: podcast? Yeah, absolutely. This is off the record. I’m hoping you’ve stopped
[01:34:56] Danny de Hek: recording. Oh, no, I haven’t. This is all part of it. They’re gonna finish it now
[01:35:02] Mark Magcaling: people. A hundred percent. I’ll jump on. I’ll jump on whenever you need me to.
[01:35:06] Mark Magcaling: I think that there’s a lot of things we can discuss that are that could be healthy for anyone. Viewing it or watching it or listening to
[01:35:11] Danny de Hek: it. Yeah. One thing I am doing, I’m on a Monday night at nine 30 in New Zealand time, seven 30 Australian time. I have what you call a think tank meeting and everyone’s welcome to come along.
[01:35:20] Danny de Hek: When you booked to come on this meeting, you would’ve seen, there may have been a think tank meeting. It’s not, it’s free service. And basically just talk to businesses that wanna vent and overcome obstacles. So if you know anyone that’s interested in that tonight, Monday’s
[01:35:59] Danny de Hek: Eight months. So, Oh, no. Good stuff. I really appreciate you coming online. The worst scenario is this is now gonna be a podcast and it might tune worst scenario. True. But I will stop recording.
[01:36:09] Danny de Hek: So I’ve even got music. So you’ve been listening to the Danny de Hek shoe cast and I’ve forgotten your name already, but it’s Mark, how do you say your last name? Ag Kelling. Woo. And I’m Danny de Hek, so thank you for listening and we’ll let that fade out and we’ll say goodbye to. Yeah. So there you go.
[01:36:28] Danny de Hek: So there were, that wasn’t, I know they spent an hour and a half long, or an hour, 40 long, but when you get a phone call, cold calling and they’re from your own country Don’t do what I do, get grumpy with them. Cause it is like a red flag to a bull. And if you are doing any SEO stuff, you know, and you don’t know anything and your website’s not working, then get up to speed.
[01:36:49] Danny de Hek: You know, put some gauge it, you know, put some Google Analytics on the back end of your website. And if you are getting 3, 5, 10 visits a day to your website and you’re wondering why it’s not working, then reach out to a company like the one I just interviewed. Kiwi kw, What is it? KW something. I’m terrible, won’t I?
[01:37:09] Danny de Hek: I think you got it. Kiwi website design, I think it’s called. But if you search for anything, they’ll come up from the top 10 . Yeah. So I’m, I’ve got burpees, don’t drink beer and do podcasting. It’s been a long day for me. It is now 20 to 12 at night. I hope you got some wisdom out of my. SEO video, and I hope that it save you some money.
[01:37:30] Danny de Hek: And so the answer to the question, what do you think is SEO a scam? Put it in the comment section, hit the like button if you enjoyed the video. And are you being exploited? Well, in short, a lot of companies are out there just trying to make money quick. So talk to the guys, build a good relationship up with them and see if they’re a good fit for your business before you, for out your money.
[01:37:56] Danny de Hek: And there are a lot of tricks and tips that you can do to make your website come up. It’s not just a, a few words. And your website comes up. And while you’re successful, it’s a whole combination of things that you need to do to make your website rank. And if you need any help, reach out to me. Reach out to Mark and find these guys and ask them if they can help you.
[01:38:18] Danny de Hek: You know, build your online presence. I’m Danny de Hek, that’s my music. And you’ve been watching The What to Heck podcast. No you haven’t. You’ve been listening to the What to Heck podcast, and you’ve been listening to The Tube Cast. So I will put this out as a podcast as well. So thanks for listening, and once again, thanks for subscribing and hit the bell when you’ll be notified when my new video comes out.
[01:38:41] Danny de Hek: You’ve been listening to Danny de Hek.
DANNY : DE HEK, “THE CRYPTO PONZI SCHEME AVENGER,“ a nickname given to me by the New York Times. I’m a YOUTUBER, PODCASTER, EDUCATOR and BLOGGER, and this website aims to showcase my passions. I believe in omnipresence!