WHAT : DE HEK Podcast – 12 Questions with ‘Ex-Jehovah’s Witness’ Cliff “Fifth” Henderson (Rapper)
You’re listening to Danny, on WHAT : DE HEK podcast. This is the place where I share my experience, knowledge and skills.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:00:00]
You were listening to Danny on the WHAT : DE HEK podcast. This is the place where I share my experience, knowledge and skills. I got a treat for you. I hope you like rapping music. I’ve actually got Cliff Henderson called “Fifth”. He’s coming on to the, WHAT DE HEK podcast and I’m going to get straight into asking him a few questions welcome along. How are you doing?
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:00:23]
I’m doing well. Thank you for having me, Danny. I appreciate you. You reaching out and making it happen.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:00:28]
I’m in New Zealand. It’s 3:30 in the afternoon. Whereabouts are you?
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:00:38]
You’re in your car because you’ve got a young child. That’s made a lot of noise. So you’ve come out the car record. I want to get to know you this I’ve got these questions. If you’re not familiar with them, our listeners, basically I have a hundred questions and they’re random and I’ve grabbed 12 and we’re going to ask, they say, is there anything you wish would come back into fashion?
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:01:02]
Ooh. Anything I wish would come back into fashion? I think the rap music that I grew up on, I wish that would come back that style. Music would come back and passing right now. Things are very different and I like the new wave, but yeah, I wish I wish that it was still cool to, to rap. Like some of the people that I grew up on, you know?
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:01:22]
Yeah. Did you hit one of those radios that you put on your shoulder? A boom box and it had took like those D sized batteries and you’d have about 10 of them in the back of it and walk around the neighborhood.
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:01:33]
Yeah, we have one of those. So that feels like more of a New York thing to me, for some reason, like on the East coast kind of thing is what I think about when I think of that. But yeah. Yeah, we definitely, you know, we have boom boxes and stuff like that and we would listen to music outside and yeah, we did OB. Yeah.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:01:50]
That’s cool. All right. Let’s see, yeah, if you could live anywhere in the world, where would it be?
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:01:56]
Brazil? Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I just really liked when I went there. I really just liked the atmosphere and the energy and even the language I do speak Portuguese. So it was a, you know, it’s just a beautiful language and just the culture in general. I just think it’s really cool down there in, in, in Brazil. So yeah, that’s what that’s definitely, and it’s beautiful, you know? You have beautiful like natural sites and things like that. That’s just really nice to take in, you know obviously depending on what part you’re in, but yeah, it would be, it would be in Brazil for sure.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:02:34]
That’s it. Now I’m a big traveler and this might sound really dumb, but is it Rio? Is that inBrazil?
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:02:38]
Rio is in Brazil. And I went to Rio. That’s probably not even the place that I would, I would probably go, I’d probably be in the South. But, but I did like Rio and Rio. Isn’t you know, it’s an amazing city. So Rio de Janeiro is a big city. South Paolo is another big city or a big, you know, big big state. So anyway, yeah
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:02:58]
I don’t know about much. I mean, I’ve been in a few places, you know, I’ve been to I’ve been to Scandinavia, you know, I’ve been to, you know, a few places in a couple places in South America. Haven’t been to Asia, you know, there there’s, there’s definitely still some places that, you know, I’ve been Australia. I went to Australia last year. Yeah. I was, I was down there. In Sydney? Yeah, just in Sydney. So a little bit, a little bit of traveling a little bit traveling.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:03:25]
Yeah, and I I’m, Starla is not good for us because it’s a three and a half hour flight. And basically for around about $1,200, you can go over there for a week and come back. So, which is about 800 us dollars. That was a real cheap holiday. And it’s a lot warmer than New Zealand. So we head over there quite a lot.
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:04:00]
Probably kangaroo in Sydney. Yeah. That may not even be unusual to you because since you’re so close to Australia but for me it was it was, that was, that was very unusual for me.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:04:13]
Yeah, I traveled Bangladesh, China and India. 13 months ago got out just before COVID but when we come back, my partner said, how about going? I’m a vegetarian. I said, what are the guy vegan? I’ve been a vegan for the last 14 months. And I haven’t missed on. But it’s not unusual when you’ve had meetings and dairy in your life and then you’re just, I’m still human.
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:04:35]
It is. Yeah. You know, what’s funny about that. I’m pretty, I’m like 90% vegan. So like, when I went to, when I went to Australia, I’ve been, and I’ve been for like four years, but, but for me, it’s not like, you know, I don’t view it like, like religion, for example, you know, it’s like I can do it 90% of the time. And every once in a while, if I want to have, you know, fish, you know, a couple of times a year or something like that, or, you know, or go to Sydney and have kangaroo, you know, I’ll do that. No, that’s not like the popular, you know creative veganism, but that’s, that’s kind of, you know, it’s just, that’s just something that works for me.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:05:13]
Yeah. I’m not trying to say the planet. I actually watched the game changer on Netflix and that was pretty cool. And I really, I like calling myself a plant-based eater. Well, I have more energy as well, which I found really interesting. That’s a good, okay. So if you could go back in time and change one thing, this could be good. What would that be?
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:05:35]
Man, that’s that’s rough. I mean, because there are things that like would be, would affect my life directly and then there’s other things that. Maybe better for the planet, you know, that don’t have anything to do with me.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:05:53]
I’m a believer of every action has a reaction and you know, you change one thing.
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:05:58]
I don’t know, maybe the invasion of bombs. I don’t like those nuclear weapons, but yeah. Yeah. Like if we could, if we could somehow I, I like, I’m scared to say stifled the minds of the people who, you know, created that being, or I don’t know, it would be the best, best way, but yeah. So if there was some way to get rid of that, I think that would probably That would probably be best for like mankind, you know?
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:06:25]
Yeah. Yeah. Some has stopped war, I think is something that I think I did hear once that they stopped spending all the money that they spend on war for one day, they would solve the world’s famine problems and that. It’s weird. I, I probably heard that from the same place. This could be a good one for a rapper. What’s the longest you’ve
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:08:41]
Just be naughty. Okay. Essentially, it looks like we’ve done it on purpose now. It’s very, arty. Device looking good.
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:08:58]
Let me, I’m going to try, I’m going to try, you know what I’m maybe I’m going to try to relocate here, so, so just continue I’ll I’ll drive somewhere and see it, then that helps.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:09:11]
It’s good now, right? Okay. Yeah, let’s do that.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:09:32]
When you’re used to sing the kingdom songs, when you used to sing the kingdom songs and the Jehovah’s witness halls, did you, did you, did you, have you ever thought about doing a rap using that kingdom song?
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:09:46]
No, I can’t. I can’t say I have I actually, so when I grew up, there were at least of parties where people, the DJs would take the kingdom songs and like scratch him and, you know, do different things to them. And so, you know, but it was, it was. It was pretty taboo though. It’s not really something you were supposed to do. So but yeah, I I, I never, I never thought of doing that. I never thought of a rapping to kingdom songs. Nah, not really. Definitely not. Now I just want to get that stuff out of my head, you know?
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:10:22]
Yeah. Point sometimes painful talking about it. And I don’t want to get a lot. I don’t want people to think I’ve got to chip on the shoulder because I, you know, I’ve got a good life, but it fascinates me. I haven’t got an education, but if it did go back and get one, I’d like to study psychology because I like to understand that people think.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:10:47]
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I’m going to go back now to that Question. What’s the longest you’ve gone without sleep?.
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:10:54]
The longest I’ve gone without sleep maybe 20 hours or something, maybe something like that. Yeah. Not, not too. Like I don’t, I’ve never gone like. Oh, full day and plus without sleeping, you mean you’re talking about any sleep at all, right?
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:11:14]
Yeah. Well, sometimes you’ve you know, well, I remember going out drinking one night and sitting there in the bar and then watching the sun come up, going on my goodness. But that was a bit different, but yeah, I mean, I don’t get much sleep myself anyway, so it’s a dumb question for me. I’m gonna pick another one. Okay. Okay. If you could choose, if you could choose to do anything for a day, what would you do? So you free world to do anything all you want to do. What would you like to do?
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:11:42]
This is going to sound corny, but I think make music. I think I really, I think I really enjoy that. I think I really enjoy that, that much. That, that would probably be my, the activity that I would, I would like the most at this point in my life, you know, who knows it’s been a few years, the answer would be something different, but yeah, it would probably be, it would probably be that that’s, that’s my biggest passion besides my son and, you know, Yeah, go ahead.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:12:11]
You mean uninterrupted? Isn’t it? That’s what you were not doing, what I do, but when I get a whole day of no interruptions, you accomplish so much. Yeah
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:12:37]
I think it has to be, man, I watched it last night and it’s just brilliant, man.
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:12:42]
Yeah. I think that’s, that’s kind of the interesting thing to me about like me coming into the musical space is because I never felt that there was a song that, that represented me, you know, like all of these rappers that I would listen to, I was like, man, my story has never been told. You know, and my story is not unique to me, per say. It’s, there’s a lot of people who have the same story as me. So that’s why you know, that’s, that’s something I wanted to like, feel in this space, you know, there’s not another rapper, as far as I know, that’s, you know, that’s really talking about peace, you know like how I’ve, how I’ve been trying to do it. So, yeah. Anyway, so the song, I think that sums me up the most is, is my first song, which is cost of doing business. Cause it tells. My story and, you know, generally how we get to where I am at this point in my life.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:13:35]
Yeah. And it really did now let, it was actually I was watching a couple of other people that I’ve interviewed and interviewed, you know, in the past. And one guy said it made him cry. I mean, when you get your message out there and fix other people’s lives, it’s breathtaking I’m I’m. I’m dyslexic and four years I’ll be doing a bit of public speaking and training to be a speaker in the like, and I remember having a guy, I was all miked up and I said, Oh, you couldn’t just record me reading this three minute and 41 minutes. Talk about dyslexia. And I now know, but it wasn’t So I matched getting three minutes and 41 seconds worth of material. And it was the five years of me figuring out how to get this one message out, and one go, you know, you’re story is different, but I certainly say really nailed it for me, and it’s absolutely high quality stuff too. Do you have a film crew around you and everything doing all that? Because it looks like you obviously did that.
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:14:33]
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I actually So for my birthday which was one of my first birthdays that I’ve ever celebrated. My good friends decided that was going to be his gift to me. He was going to get reached out to a videographer who recorded some of people’s favorite rappers. Like he’s a big videographer and my friend just reached out to him and hired him. And w you know, it was amazing. So I flew down there to Southern California and I sat with him and this guy, like I said, this guy, if you check his Instagram, he shooting for huge star, you know? So it’s the fact that I could have that for my first video is pretty crazy to me. That’s literally my first video and song ever, you know, so I think I got really lucky and now he shoots all of my videos. He’s even flown up here to San Francisco area. And he, the last video I shot called chasing dreams. He shot that as well. So yeah, definitely. We had a, and it’s really just him. It’s really him. And one other guy that kind of takes pictures. But he’s he’s a one man, so, and he’s, he’s, he’s amazing.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:15:44]
Yeah, not really. It was good. World-class and as I said, you’ve got to do a shout out to my niece, her name’s Jasmine Eve. Hey, Jasmine. Yeah, I said to her. When I see that I had you come in on the show, she said, Aw, listen to all the stuff. And she was really wrapped that I was interviewing you. So it was really nice. Actually.
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:16:05]
I appreciate that, Jasmine. Yeah, that’s funny. That’s my sister the sister who follows me in age. She’s her mind? Her name is Jasmine. So yeah, so that’s the coincidence there. So set out Jasmine.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:16:18]
What’s one thing you would never do again. Ha ha ha.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:16:28]
Oh, it’s a hard one isn’t it, for people who don’t follow the Jehovah’s witness thing. It’s such a big part of your life. It’s like when you go down to the local supermarket and you’d bump into somebody you grew up with. And you don’t know whether they’re in it or out of it. And you don’t know whether you make a fool of yourself when you go up and say, good, I how are you doing it. You just kind of get away from it.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:16:49]
You were baptised at nine years of age, which is so young. Yeah. I think my brother was 11. I knew three sisters and they were baptized do At 13 ish?
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:17:02]
So I have three sisters and I have one brother. My, yeah, my sisters were baptized at Jasmine was baptized at 13 and then another sister baptized at 11 and then the other sister also at 13. So yeah, everybody got baptized pretty young.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:17:18]
And if you don’t mind me saying for people who don’t know the religion, your family now has nothing to do with you.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:17:28]
It’s sad thing. Yeah, yeah. I put it in a nutshell and it’s just sadness. Really. It’s a waste of so many things. It’s hard to even explain it. Who’s your hero then? Like who do you, who inspires you?
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:17:45]
Who inspires me. And that’s tough who inspires? I think I have different inspirations for different things. I think someone who I admire and just talking to like celebrities and stuff like that, or is that what we’re talking about?
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:18:05]
I think so. Yeah. I think motivation, I mean, motivation. What motivates you to get out of bed in the morning in a way? Really? Isn’t it? Yeah.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:18:19]
Or sometimes you listen to somebody speak about something new. Think that really motivates me or gets me. You know, yeah.
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:18:27]
I think, I think somebody who’s who motivated, who’s a motivational, inspirational me is Dave Chapelle. Believe it or not a comedian. I find him very, very inspirational. And like some of the things, a lot of the things that he talks about and just kind of the way that he sees things like I aspire to To, to be like that, you know, to a degree. And so I, I kind of find, you know, that inspirational like, you know, inspirational and just motivational. It’s something that I admire.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:19:01]
Now I’m going to find the one for you because I I’ve done two podcasts today. I’ve done three years, Jane, Jay, the comedian. I just interviewed him before yourself. And I said, can you give me a question to ask Cliff. And he said, he wants to know what the YouTube video of his, that you liked the most.
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:19:33]
The ones that I remember enjoying the most and laughing at the most, I just remember laughing. I don’t even remember what they were about. Like and I, it was so long ago, like I got introduced to Jay’s channel the same day that the Leah remedy show that I was on. Came out. And that was like November of 2018. So me and my friend, I went to visit my friend in New York. He’s like, you gotta watch this guy. And I was watching him and I was like, he’s hilarious. And he was like making fun of what he was talking about. How like there’s us, like at an assembly, you’ll see like a.
You know, a lady given given a experience, given an experience of, you know, a sister about how, like, this guy was trying to this re this rich guy was trying to hit on her. And, you know, he had, he had a Lamborghini and he had so much money and, you know, it was really a test for me from Satan and like Jehovah was with me. And he was, Jay was just talking about how, like, How silly knows, you know, the it’s just really just really crazy experiences that they would have us listen to, you know, and it would always be kind of generic and kind of just like very predictable and, and, and just, just silly, just, just propaganda. So anyway, I just was really able to resonate with with, you know, how, how he explains what the experiences of being a witness is like so yeah, definitely sat out, sat out to Jay.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:21:05]
Today and it was about Tony Morris and he was in a liquor store buying a whole lot of liquor, but he had a whole trolley. And and he’s wearing a trench coat and he was asking them what whiskey was going to need. He just went through the whole, the whole scene with it. It’s just so cool because I think the humor that, I mean, we were talking earlier before we went live, but yeah. People don’t understand saying the Jehovah’s witness terminology. And when you talk about the governing body and you know, the last days and the sign of the times, or whatever, all this stuff, people don’t get it. But it’s so funny when the comedian chucks in these little bits of lace lines that we pick up and no one else probably will.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:21:46]
All right. Two more questions, mate. What would you sing at a karaoke night?
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:21:50]
Oh man, that’s a tough one. That’s a tough one. Oh yeah. I guess I could say no. I won’t, I won’t keep answering that for every day. Maybe a Nipsey hussle, Nipsey hussle song. Is that your Nipsey? Say it again?
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:22:08]
No, that’s rap. It’s rap also. Yeah. So, so yes, no, that’s okay. It’s okay. He’s he’s he’s a rapper. They actually he’s deceased now, but he he’s a rapper from Southern California and he’s, he’s one of my favorite rappers of all time. So I would probably seeing something from him, maybe. Maybe a song called dedication. It’s a really, really good song from Nipsey hussle. So yeah, that’s probably what I, what I was seeing at a karaoke. If we’re talking about singing, singing, it will be a Stevie wonder song. Well, yeah, all I need is my Stevie wonder is actually my favorite artists of all time. As much as I’m talking about rap. You know, I really like, you know, Stevie wonder is my favorite and my favorite song of hers is all I need. So that’s probably on the singing side. That’s probably what I would do at a karaoke.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:22:54]
Yeah, good stuff. I’ll stay in the, my partner. I was a bit nervous about interviewing today and I said, wonder if I should ask if he wants to do a rap together? And she said, please don’t
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:23:23]
You can’t use it. Can’t use it, use that one.
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:23:25]
Okay. I would say my proudest accomplishment is, is leaving a belief system that I that I didn’t you know, that, that didn’t read through to me. And even though the cost is very high. You know, and creates a lot of pain and things like that. I think I’m proud of myself for for just not continuing to go along with something that didn’t ring true to be, you know.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:23:50]
I can resonate that it’s like it’s starting over with nothing, isn’t it?
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:24:10]
Well, it’s been awesome, mate. We’ve asked some questions and what are you, so you had full-time singer or do you have a job as well? What would do you?
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:24:18]
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I can’t support myself on music. Yeah. Most musicians, especially when they first start off, you know, It’s it’s a glorified hobby I say right now. And I say glorified because, you know, eventually I would love to be able to do it. Full-time because, like I said, it’s my passion. But what I do for a living has nothing to do with the music. I’m a, I’m an interpreter. I’m actually an interpreter, a Spanish interpreter in court.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:24:50]
Do you ever get to change the words to say something else. Say it again. The words. Yeah. You have free, you know, sorry. I got that wrong.
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:25:03]
Yeah. No, sometimes there’s a, there’s like if somebody says something disrespectful to the judge, like curses at the judge sometimes. I wa outro at least like, Oh, you know, I still have to say it I’m under ethical obligation to say what they said. Wow. But you know, but, but sometimes like, Oh, at least like, think about it and then I’ll have I’ll look at the judge. Like kinda like, you know, it’s not my words. Right. Just as a reminder, I’m just, I’m just interpreting. So yeah, no, I can definitely get switch anything around that’s big trouble.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:25:42]
Cool. Yeah. And how’s, COVID in your hometown. I hear that the bars and cafes are starting to open up a little bit. You’re in level four. Is that right? You know what?
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:25:51]
I don’t know the level of numbers I used to watch the news every day. And then I just, I think I just got a little bit tired of it. It’s just too much. So I just kind of feel like I’ll find out somehow. Excuse me what the, what the rules and the guidelines are. And I’m fine with that, but I, so I don’t know what level, but I do know that yes. They are doing some like outdoor seating and stuff like that. We just recently went to Benihana’s. I don’t know if you have Benihanas in New Zealand. It’s where it’s a restaurant where they it’s like Asian cuisine and they. The, the, the thrill of the restaurant is they flip the spatulas and put on a whole show kind of in front of you. They cook while they’re spinning swords or whatever. Yeah. Hats and, you know, stuff like that. Like, you know, a self comes over and he kind of puts on a little, so, you know, it makes it a train out of onions or whatever. So anyway, we went there recently and all they have is just outdoor seating. So they don’t, they, all it is is they just bring you a plate outside. Like the whole reason for going to be as is completely lost at the moment. Like it, you know, and then that’s when you realize like, wait, I, I guess I didn’t like the food that much. Like I like it. I really liked the show. That was part of it, you know? Exactly. Like here’s a show for you right there. Yeah
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:27:22]
It’s a different world at the moment. It’s sort of a, with the JW dub thing, I’ve noticed a lot of them are looking at the doom and gloom and yeah
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:27:31]
And that’d be like I remember getting a text from somebody saying, Oh, you know, I keep an eye on the King of the south and the King of the North was something that this guy texts me, all of this stuff. It’s like that it’s kind of like, they’re waving their flag now thinking this is the moment that they’ve had lots of moments that have been proven out.
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:27:47]
Exactly. You know, you know, it’s interesting. I heard, so I saw somebody recently on a forum about that, say that a lot of the beliefs that, you know, some of the books that Jehovah’s witnesses use about prophecy and stuff like that, if you read it, it’s really just a bunch of conspiracy theories. And I thought that was kind of interesting, right? Like it’s kind of. It should be a lot of it should be kind of classed like that, you know, like how we might view any other, you know, conspiratorial group, it’s kind of, you know, they have those elements. So anyway, I just, I, I find that kind of interesting.
DANNY : DE HEK: [00:28:27]
Yeah, that’s a weird thing. Hi, it’s nice that you managed to get yourself out. The other side, you got yourself beautiful family around you, and obviously some good relationships and it’s so nice to see you. You’re doing getting your message out and your music. And it’s, it really has been I don’t want to say blessing a privilege. And it’s just so nice to have you spend the time to come on the show. Cause I know you’re a busy fella, so it’s been really because
Cliff “Fifth” Henderson: [00:28:55]
No problem, no problem. And you know, like I said, thank you for, thank you for reaching out. You know, and allowing me to, to, to answer the questions, that’s a very creative Creative approach you have there. So yeah, I really enjoyed it. Thank you.
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DANNY : DE HEK, “THE CRYPTO PONZI SCHEME AVENGER,“ a nickname given to me by the New York Times. I’m a YOUTUBER, PODCASTER, EDUCATOR and BLOGGER, and this website aims to showcase my passions. I believe in omnipresence!